French Grandprix

[Sazar]

Excellent race by the Ferrari's :)

First time this season I have seen Hamilton so far off the pace.

Raikonnen said they had changed some things around on their clutch package and seeing his excellent start, I have to agree with him.

3-stop strategy seemed to be the wrong one today :)

Some excellent battles as well :D Hamilton, Alonso, pulling off some very aggressive over-takes :D

[MustangSVT]

Watched it live. Surprising that the 3 stop strategy didn't do so well this time. I guess you have to be Schumacher to get it right. In fact, last year Schumcher won this race with 3 stops, since Magny Cours is known to be fastest with fresh tyres. I guess the Bridgestones this year are very different from previous years, or probably the fact that Schumacher knows this track (and the tyres) better than anyone in the world.

Anyway, really happy about Ferrari's 1-2 and Raikkonen's win, my fav driver is Raikkonen so you can imagine how I feel.

[Sazar]

I thought Schumi won it with 4 stops? But he was lapping about a second faster than everyone else so he won relatively easily.

Kimi needed this win for his personal confidence.

Hamilton did well again, great over-take but lets see if this affects him at all.

I wonder how he will feel if he finishes off the podium...

[FlyVomit]

I though it was pretty dull - apart from the incident with the fuel rig!

[schuey74]

I thought Schumi won it with 4 stops? But he was lapping about a second faster than everyone else so he won relatively easily.
Yes, it was four stops, but he was not winning easily. Kimi was going to win that race until he slid thru some oil left by the bane of F1 - Toyota....and then Michael got past him. I've never seen anyone (not even Fernando in the last few races) as unsatisfied with a second place as Kimi on that day....he looked suicidal in the press conference.

And what's up with Felipe crying like a little baby about traffic. Kimi's been faster than him on race day since Canada! If Felipe was so fast he should've opened up gaps bigger than two or three secs before his pits, but the fact of the matter is that Kimi did NOT allow that.

And to all who know, Kimi won this race in qualifying since he got past the finish line a split-second before time expired and got credit for an additional lap worth of fuel. That's what had Kimi stopping two or three laps after Felipe instead of just one or two. Brilliant strategy (albeit a bit lucky) and a great drive from the Kimster!

[Sazar]

Yes, it was four stops, but he was not winning easily. Kimi was going to win that race until he slid thru some oil left by the bane of F1 - Toyota....and then Michael got past him. I've never seen anyone (not even Fernando in the last few races) as unsatisfied with a second place as Kimi on that day....he looked suicidal in the press conference.

Forgot about that :)

But Schumi was still quicker than everyone else on a lap per lap basis, not counting pits.

And what's up with Felipe crying like a little baby about traffic. Kimi's been faster than him on race day since Canada! If Felipe was so fast he should've opened up gaps bigger than two or three secs before his pits, but the fact of the matter is that Kimi did NOT allow that.

When Kimi came out of his 2nd pit, he came into traffic, the same traffic that slowed down Massa and prevented him from being in front on Kimi.

Kimi flew his last few laps before the 2nd pit but Massa was definitely slowed down. That's probably what he was commenting on.

And to all who know, Kimi won this race in qualifying since he got past the finish line a split-second before time expired and got credit for an additional lap worth of fuel. That's what had Kimi stopping two or three laps after Felipe instead of just one or two. Brilliant strategy (albeit a bit lucky) and a great drive from the Kimster!

Good race by Ferrari all around but Massa definitely has a point. He was the best driver on the day and consistently the fastest on a lap per lap basis, other than the one he was in traffic. Kimi lucked out that he only had to navigate half the cars in the group, Massa started off from the back of them.

[schuey74]

Forgot about that :)

But Schumi was still quicker than everyone else on a lap per lap basis, not counting pits.

Yup, but when wasn't Michael the quickest on track?! :p
But as they say, it's not who drives the fastest, it's who crosses the finish line first and that's what Kimi was going to do until his bad luck struck again. Obviously I don't remember the times, but I think it's fair to assume that most of Michael's advantage on the time sheets could be attributed to him running lighter than Kimi all day....otherwise Michael would have won regardless of what happened to Kimi.


When Kimi came out of his 2nd pit, he came into traffic, the same traffic that slowed down Massa and prevented him from being in front on Kimi.

Kimi flew his last few laps before the 2nd pit but Massa was definitely slowed down. That's probably what he was commenting on.

Of course that's true, but my point is that if he was so fast he should've been able to build a bigger gap than the two or three seconds he had before each pit. IMO, he couldn't open up a gap because Kimi wouldn't allow it. The same way that Fernando didn't allow Lewis to open up any sort of gap @ Indy. Fernando didn't have a pitstop advantage there so he had to hope for a Lewis mistake. With an extra three laps of fuel Kimi could just keep pace with Felipe and then blow past him when he pit.

The fact of the matter is that Felipe had to drop down some flying laps before he pitted. He tried to and Kimi simply kept pace with him. Just like Michael did virtually everytime Barichello tried to stay ahead of him.


Good race by Ferrari all around but Massa definitely has a point. He was the best driver on the day and consistently the fastest on a lap per lap basis, other than the one he was in traffic. Kimi lucked out that he only had to navigate half the cars in the group, Massa started off from the back of them.
I'll respectfully disagree here. I can't see how Massa was the best driver of the day when he lost out to his teammate who started in third. Massa was setting the fastest laps because he was in first and there was no point in Kimi getting any closer than three or four seconds behind him. Michael, Mika, & Fernando never gave their teammates a chance to win because of traffic. The technical directors would simply get on the radio and tell them how fast they needed to go to hold on to the lead and they did - Massa didn't and imo, can't. Maintaining a two or three second lead thru two thirds of the race is not dominating. It means that at best you're equally as fast as the car following you, which in this case was Kimi with three laps more fuel than Massa throughout the race. IMO, being heavier and still faster (or at worst, equally fast) makes Kimi the better of the two Ferrari drivers last weekend.

I don't want to seem like I have anything against Massa. On the contrary, I think he's a great driver and he's impressed my a lot as he improves year after year. I even told all my F1 buddies at the end of last year that Massa was going to give Kimi all he could handle, especially in the first half of the season. He's been groomed by Ferrari for years and he was Michael's pupil last year. But ultimately, Kimi's faster. He was faster than Montoilet and Easter Island (DC). And no matter what Michael says, there's a reason he was willing to race alongside Massa and not Kimi.

[Sazar]

Massa did build up a nice lead and then ran into traffic :)

Don't get me wrong, they both drove great races and I am a big Kimi fan, I am simply responding to your dismissal of Massa's (valid) claim :cool:

And, not counting the traffic laps, Massa WAS faster, check the chrono on fastest laps, you'll see Massa at the top. Kimi dropped his fastest laps when he was light and had no traffic and no one behind him and he was still slower.

Massa had some of his fastest laps with a medium fuel load :D

/me loves F1.

[schuey74]

Massa did build up a nice lead and then ran into traffic :)

Don't get me wrong, they both drove great races and I am a big Kimi fan, I am simply responding to your dismissal of Massa's (valid) claim :cool:

And, not counting the traffic laps, Massa WAS faster, check the chrono on fastest laps, you'll see Massa at the top. Kimi dropped his fastest laps when he was light and had no traffic and no one behind him and he was still slower.

I know, but I don't like excuses. It really breaks my balls when I see a driver start an interview with excuses. Rubens and Montoya were notorious for this. Just go faster! Kimi went fast enough to win and that's what Massa should've done while he was in the lead for 45 laps. That's why it isn't a valid claim in my book. Kimi would not have beat Michael, Fernando, Lewis, Nick, Nico, or even Adrian Sutil if they would've been in Felipe's place. Felipe was caught because he isn't elite and can't drop down the few killer laps when needed. (ie, not in the middle of a stint when Kimi doesn't care if he's three or four seconds behind him.)
Massa had some of his fastest laps with a medium fuel load :D.....and Kimi was heavier and still on his ass....the gap was never more than four seconds. In other words, manageable. :p :p :p


/me loves F1.
:) :) :)

Don't mind me, I always get a little argumentative when bored. Nothing to do at the office today so just looking for something to help pass the time. Almost all the F1 fans I know are Brasilian so it's a bit of a pasttime of mine to bust their chops as much as possible.

In the Michael/Rubens days we used to sing, "Sempre atrás do alemão!" And now Felipe's song will be, "Sempre atrás do Finlandês!" Although, overall I do think he's more talented than Rubens and actually has a chance at a World Championship.

[MustangSVT]

And to all who know, Kimi won this race in qualifying since he got past the finish line a split-second before time expired and got credit for an additional lap worth of fuel. That's what had Kimi stopping two or three laps after Felipe instead of just one or two. Brilliant strategy (albeit a bit lucky) and a great drive from the Kimster!
Yes I recall watching quali and Kimi got an additional lap within the last 5 seconds or so of quali, I thought something might come of it and now that you explain it better, I see what you mean about the additional fuel. As for the traffic, it did benefit Kimi in a way. Thankfully he was able to keep up with Felipe through it, but the fact a lot of it was there stopped Massa from gaining too much ground over him. The gap after the second stop was around 2 to 3 seconds or so.

At the end, I still didn't get why Alonso finished behind Fisico and Heidfeld, I guess he got the pit strategy all wrong too.

Again I'd just like to mention that while Lewis was using the 3 stop which is normally the fastest, he wasn't really able to make use of it like Schumacher usually does, and this proved to me that he still has some things to learn.

At the same time, I have been baffled from the beginning of the season till now how in the world he has Alonso's pace (or even better in some cases), when Alonso has 5 years experience behind him. Must do with the fact that Alonso is on a new car and that it's the first time for him on Bridgestone tyres too.

[Sazar]

A few things.

Hamilton is flat-out FAST. Alonso won over Schumi by having a better car. He is a great driver but in the same kind of setup with another good driver, his advantage is simply not that big.

Drivers like Senna and Prost and Schumi have managed to win or be competitive with inferior cars simply because they were that good.

Kimi complainied about his starts and made some tweaks and he did a great job.

[bob saget]

I missed the race but going to catch up on the highlights.

[schuey74]

Fisi was considered one of the best drivers in F1 until he was teamed up with Alonso. In fact, I remember the article in F1 Magazine comparing the two when they first became teammates and half the experts picked Fisi over Alonso. In two championship seasons he made one race mistake - Canada '06. His only other couple retirements came from mechanical failure. During that same time, Fisi was a disaster, winning just one race per year. And lest we forget, Alonso scored points in a Minardi in one of his first races in F1!

Right now, Alonso is still faster than Hamilton. He was faster in every single session in Indy, except the final quali. He was on Lewis's ass every single lap of that race so you certainly can't say Lewis was faster during the race either. IMO, at the end of the season Alonso will be ahead.

BUT, Hamilton is a phenom and incredibly fast. I just feel that Alonso still has a small edge on him this year which could be gone by next. I wouldn't underestimate Fernando though.

[BrianG]

Right now, Alonso is still faster than Hamilton. He was faster in every single session in Indy, except the final quali. He was on Lewis's ass every single lap of that race so you certainly can't say Lewis was faster during the race either. IMO, at the end of the season Alonso will be ahead.
If so, they'll both be behind the Ferraris. Look out folks, cause the prancing horse has found their form. Interesting story about their wind tunnel. It blowed up and they lost a few weeks of aero work. Interesting that the car had several changes and Kimi mentioned post-race that they ran out of time to implement all of the improvements. To think that Ferrari would add more pace in a back-to-back weekend.

Lewis will be in the running for the championship because of his current points lead. I think Alonso is over-driving right now. Also, BMW may be able to contest for a race win by the end of the season in terms of pace.

Good season so far thanks to the Lewis/Alonso drama and Ferrari's temporary drop in pace. Go BMW. Good times...

[schuey74]

Lewis will be in the running for the championship because of his current points lead. I think Alonso is over-driving right now. Also, BMW may be able to contest for a race win by the end of the season in terms of pace.

Good season so far thanks to the Lewis/Alonso drama and Ferrari's temporary drop in pace. Go BMW. Good times...

Go BMW!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I hope they can compete for a race win, but it's going to take a lot + a little luck to beat both the McLarens and Ferraris. Perhaps this weekend in the rain.....

Hopefully the McLarens take P1 & P2 and then take each other out like Timo Glock and his moronic teammate did in last week's GP2 race.....then maybe Heidfeld or Kubica can sneak thru!