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Nutty
04-01-03, 05:25 PM
From front page.

http://www.3dgpu.com/comments.php?id=2307&category=9

some choice excerpts;

NVIDIA offers me early hardware and very good support. Prior to GeForceFX I worked with Radeon 9700 but I am currently developing the Stalker engine on NV35.

On ATI boards Stalker will run fast, but on NVIDIA boards it will run even faster, plus gamers will get a set of unique effects, namely due to close work with the company enginers and support of NVIDIA hardware features.

discuss/flame ? :)

Grrrpoop
04-01-03, 06:01 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, the 9700 can do any shader effects possible on the FX and vice-versa.

I don't see why certain effects would (or indeed should) be "unique" to the FX.

Also, if it's only just possible on an nV35 (or nV30), how are the nV31/34 going to fare? Haven't they been butchered a little in the shader department?

Disappointing that ATI didn't even respond to the Dev's :nono:

Regardless of that, I firmly believe the game should look identical on similarly featured cards. If they neglect to include support for effects the 9700 is perfectly capable of, it's obvious what having nVidia as a technical partner really means.

nVidia: look at this sweet effect!!
Dev: woah cool.. that should work on 9700 right?
nVidia: No, only our l33t hardware can do this. Honest :angel2:

jbirney
04-01-03, 06:14 PM
I wonder if that will change now that ATI has gotten RH and company...but yeap bad ATI

jAkUp
04-01-03, 06:36 PM
hmmm.... i wonder what kinda effects they are talking about

GlowStick
04-01-03, 06:41 PM
the game has cool time effects and space effects, like some kinda werid inverse blackhole or something.


I don't see why certain effects would (or indeed should) be "unique" to the FX.

How bout any shader longer than 96 =P

ChrisRay
04-01-03, 06:59 PM
nVidia: look at this sweet effect!!
Dev: woah cool.. that should work on 9700 right?
nVidia: No, only our l33t hardware can do this. Honest

Lol Like that.


Well supposively Unreal Tournament 2003 is completely optimised for Geforce cards, But Geforce cards definately are not the fastes cards for this game.

Fusion
04-01-03, 07:09 PM
I don't see why certain effects would (or indeed should) be "unique" to the FX.

Soo, if it was the other way round and it was ATI that would get all the effects, then that would be ok then ?

Funny, I didn't know this forum was full of developers. :rolleyes:

I'll give this thread another couple of hours before the fanatics turn it into another dull pissing contest. :rolleyes:



Back on track, I noticed he said he had an NV35. Nice :cool:

Also , I don't see a problem why developers should develop for Nvida cards. If ATI turned down the opportunity, then thats just tough sh1te. Nvidia picked up on the developer wanting help, and Nvidia gets the rewards. Sorted.

GlowStick
04-01-03, 07:14 PM
Ok, im going into hardcore speculation mode.

If a small developer has the NV35......... the NV35 is already more redialy avaible than the NV30!??!!

Anyone have some thoughts on this?

I do bet that his NV35 isnt running up to final clock speeds.


Also on another note, who wants to 'form' a 'game' compnay and then try to get free hardware : O

Kruno
04-01-03, 07:28 PM
Guys, you have to take into account other things too like being lazy. When I start creating games I will only work on and optimise on the hardware at hand. Meaning, I will only have my software working on Ati cards, nVidia cards would not be able to run my software. You think I would be 'ucked getting nVidia's hardware to run on my system?

The same goes for Ati if I owned an nVidia card.

Be glad that he/she is supporting the R300, I wouldn't do it myself if I am getting paid off.

Grrrpoop
04-01-03, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Fusion
Soo, if it was the other way round and it was ATI that would get all the effects, then that would be ok then ?
I don't see anybody saying that. Get your eyes checked m8, you're seeing things ;)

Originally posted by Fusion
Funny, I didn't know this forum was full of developers. :rolleyes:
Me neither. What exactly are you talking about? :confused:

Originally posted by Fusion
I'll give this thread another couple of hours before the fanatics turn it into another dull pissing contest. :rolleyes:
I give it less if ppl keep making inflammatory comments and seeing fanboism where there is none.

To clarify where I'm coming from, they've went from devving on 9700 and stating the games will look the same and perform within a few % of each other to now saying that the nVidia cards have exclusive effects and suggest they perform substancially faster.

I can see what KILER means, if they're getting the help they'll focus on nVidia hardware, fair enough. But they were making such good progress on the 9700 and implied that it was easier to code for than the FX.

I just don't see what the FX can do all of a sudden that the 9700 can't :confused:

One thing's for sure, ATI deserve a kick in the beanbag for ignoring a dev's request for help, especially on what is quite a high-profile game :mad:

Originally posted by Fusion
Also , I don't see a problem why developers should develop for Nvida cards. If ATI turned down the opportunity, then thats just tough sh1te. Nvidia picked up on the developer wanting help, and Nvidia gets the rewards. Sorted.
Mm-hmm, and you'll note I disapprove of ATI very rudely not even replying to the Dev's of STALKER.
However I disagree that nVidia's "reward" should be a game which looks superior on its hardware despite the competition being equally as capable of rendering the effects. That's just stupid. aTI hardware is actually quite popular now, and to alienate all those users is not sensible.

Fusion
04-01-03, 07:55 PM
I give it less if ppl keep making inflammatory comments and seeing fanboism where there is none.

Yeah, Well I think the same thing everytime I see an FX thread turn into a p1ssing contest. Now you know how some of us feel.

I just don't see what the FX can do all of a sudden that the 9700 can't

But you wouldn't. You're a fanATIc. .:rolleyes:

If I was over at Rage3d saying exactly the same comments for Nvidia, I would set slaughtered.

However I disagree that nVidia's "reward" should be a game which looks superior on its hardware despite the competition being equally as capable of rendering the effects. That's just stupid. aTI hardware is actually quite popular now, and to alienate all those users is not sensible.

AFTER you said

One thing's for sure, ATI deserve a kick in the beanbag for ignoring a dev's request for help, especially on what is quite a high-profile game

Exactly. Now you want that Dev to code fully for ATI ?
Why the hell should he ?
ATI (Probably too busy gloating), turned him down.
NVidia (Supposedly not dev friendly, by the lynch mob here) stepped in to help. And they now get all the benefits.
Sorry, but that sounds perfectly fair to me.

Just like using CG is fair.
Somebody needs to step in and sort out the PC market, and Nvidia did.
If CG can make games like Gun Metal look the way it does, then I'm all for it.
If ATI want to stand still, then thats their choice.

sxotty
04-01-03, 07:59 PM
Actually there are effects the the GFX can do and the 9700 definitely cannot, I am surprised you don't know as it has been documented extensively. Of course the 9700 can do them in different more complicated ways just as the ti4600 can do everything the GFX can do. The GFX may have had all kinds of problems, but if you go to beyond3d and read about the 2 cards you will see that there are differences in that the GFX can do more.
Oh and btw he probably doesn't have a nv35, since it is april1st

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/nv30r300/index.php?p=10

GlowStick
04-01-03, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by sxotty
Actually there are effects the the GFX can do and the 9700 definitely cannot, I am surprised you don't know as it has been documented extensively. Of course the 9700 can do them in different more complicated ways just as the ti4600 can do everything the GFX can do. The GFX may have had all kinds of problems, but if you go to beyond3d and read about the 2 cards you will see that there are differences in that the GFX can do more.
Oh and btw he probably doesn't have a nv35, since it is april1st

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/nv30r300/index.php?p=10

You have a good April 1st point!

April first has runied all rumor news from now on? We will ask "wait, was that written on april 1st or not : O"

gravioli
04-01-03, 08:39 PM
From here: (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?postid=1331854080)

Hi,

In fact, the graphics engine is developed on Radeon9700 :)
We demand special support from FX driver guys, 'cause in pure/standart
DX9 it's impossible so run the engine on FX, at the moment.
Yes, FX will be slightly faster, but in the margin of several
percentages...

So, don't worry, your card will be excelent performer in
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

--
Best regards,
Oles V. Shishkovtsov
GSC-Game World
oles@gsc-game.kiev.ua

If you can get through the somewhat broken english and typos, it doesn't sound like it's the end of the world for 9700 owners.

Spiritwalker
04-01-03, 09:44 PM
Will the extra features and effects be at the expence of speed though?

Hellbinder
04-01-03, 10:24 PM
How bout any shader longer than 96 =P

Thats cute.. real Cute...

9700pro can execute up to 360 instruction in multipass mode. Have you seen the speed at wich the Nv30 runs Dx9 shaders?? its slower than mollasses in january. Thus I dont think that Ati in multipass mode is goign to be any worse performing.

Further games like Doom-III have a max of about 50 instructions. yet look at the effects that game has..

Even more importantly the 9800pro can outright bodyslam the Nv30/35 in shader execution. AT the 9800 launch Ati ran a demo using 500 instruction routine shader. the 9800pro got 50 fps. the Nv30 got 2.7 FPS. which one do you think is better?

I think everyone needs to remember this is a GAME. Further an outdoor game. Just how complex of a shader routine do you think they will be able to get away with and it still remain playable??? I just dont see ANY possible justification for this at all. None. Lastly Doomtrooper at Rage3d says that His ATi dev friend personally sent 9700pro's to this developer months ago. So how could there have been no contact :rolleyes:

The bottom line is, if I really felt that they could offer somthing on an Nv30/35 that was considerably better... then why not. But I just dont see how its even remotely possible. Especially when the 9800pro can execute 10's of Thousands of shader instructions and the FX is limited to 1024.

Hellbinder
04-01-03, 10:27 PM
First.. its not an April fools joke. :rolleyes:

second..

Actually there are effects the the GFX can do and the 9700 definitely cannot, I am surprised you don't know as it has been documented extensively. Of course the 9700 can do them in different more complicated ways just as the ti4600 can do everything the GFX can do. The GFX may have had all kinds of problems, but if you go to beyond3d and read about the 2 cards you will see that there are differences in that the GFX can do more.
Oh and btw he probably doesn't have a nv35, since it is april1st

Um.. you dont know what you are talking about at all. Youa re so far off on any resembleance of the Truth that its not even funny.

By the Time this game comes out the 9800pro will have been out for a long time.. and it can run shader executing circles around the FX...

GlowStick
04-01-03, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
First.. its not an April fools joke. :rolleyes:

second..

Um.. you dont know what you are talking about at all. Youa re so far off on any resembleance of the Truth that its not even funny.

By the Time this game comes out the 9800pro will have been out for a long time.. and it can run shader executing circles around the FX...

I do agree with the 9800Pro being out long before STALKER, and i hope to have a diffrent videa card by then.

btw i am planning to buy a 9800pro, hope i can get it by wed

Sazar
04-01-03, 10:47 PM
hb... didnt you start a thread along the lines of Ati needs to take its head out of its behind and have more contact with game devs based on this very topic on r3d ?

:)

I say this... coz its funny... when you consider the posting of the EXACT same post from doomtrooper about a week ago... explaining away some of the doubts people had on this very topic... ie the post above... from the game dev...

:)

take that as you may.. its 1 game... its been developed... let it come out and let us see...

ReDeeMeR
04-01-03, 10:58 PM
Meh, if they are really going to use something "DX9 fancy l33t crap" then FX isnt going to cut it, lets get real Nvidia is going to use Stalker to hype the NV35, because imo that will be the card to give you normal frame rates with those so called
"Nvidia only effects"

lukar
04-01-03, 11:52 PM
Well, Ati didn't response, because S.T.A.L.K.E.R engine is using DX 9.0 API language, so there is no need for some special optimization, because Ati follow that. What actually developers are doing is the optimization for GFX using CG language and hacked drivers since GFX run this game like a crap using DX 9.0 API. Radeon 9800pro 256mb will blow out, and certainly Ati is doing something more serious, developing r400...

The game will have Nvidia LOGO, like many games are, but guess what? Ati r300 and r350 will blow out every GFX or GF4ti out there, and that's very funny side of this issue.

The Baron
04-02-03, 12:14 AM
NV35 comparing to r400 will be unbelievable joke

*sigh*

I can't believe people are even guessing as to what the R400 will be. Heh, I should probably write another article on the IBM-nVidia deal, nVidia's brand new magic bullet, and how ATI is completely shafted if TSMC doesn't get its act together.

Here's a hint. Don't expect R400 until March 2004.

Lezmaka
04-02-03, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
[BHere's a hint. Don't expect R400 until March 2004. [/B]

Unless they decide to rename whatever they're gonna release this fall R400.

The Baron
04-02-03, 12:31 AM
Unless they decide to rename whatever they're gonna release this fall R400.

I promise you, they won't. Otherwise, they wouldn't release the 256 meg DDR2 R400 in July or August.

walkndude
04-02-03, 02:15 AM
I think there are some that just flat out have a problem with comprehension...

The nvidia specific effects are due to nvidia giving the dev crew a hand -as in "Hey, wish we had this effect but we're not sure how to go about things with this hardware, can you give us a hand?"

Nvidia gave them some help, nothing new and I'm sure ATI will be on the phone to let them know they're willing to play ball now as well.

Fun to watch some try to turn it into the usual nvidia slug fest, even better to see this type of behavior being seen as for what it is -childish.

You dont like Nvidia, speak with your wallet(or your parents -heh)
and we all know by now the 5800 is a farce, Nvidia is the devil, and the 9700 and 9800 are gods gift straight from heaven...

I wish some of you would take a nap allready