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H3avyM3tal
07-08-07, 10:12 AM
http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/News-50168.aspx

One Asian manufacturer that SmartHouse spoke to on Friday said "Microsoft have known of this problem for a long time. They are trying to blame component manufacturers but it was a combination of bad design and them (Microsoft) wanting everything cheap. This is what caused the problem along with them wanting to beat Sony to market. A lot of manufacturers were pushed to deliver components without much testing of the components working together inside the console"

Despite adding to the continuing losses for the entertainment and devices division, Microsoft executives pointed to a silver lining: "Most customers are going to look at it and say, 'Great, Microsoft stands behind the product,'" Bach says. "Ultimately, it becomes a positive thought in people's minds."

Don't shoot the messenger please.

ENU291
07-08-07, 10:22 AM
That so called "article" has zero credibility. Where are the sources?

|MaguS|
07-08-07, 10:39 AM
Where are the sources?

smarthouse, whoever the **** that is...

Madpistol
07-08-07, 11:11 AM
Hmmmmmmmm....

Flame UP!!! :firedevil

Sazar
07-08-07, 11:40 AM
MIDGETZZZ !!!

S.I.N
07-08-07, 11:44 AM
No **** they tried to cut corners by making a cheap ass system. The original XBox was built like a damn tank, the 360 like a Kia.

H3avyM3tal
07-08-07, 11:44 AM
It IS funny huh? No sources, no credit, nothing. The hell ppl are doing these days? The only thing true there is the 1.5$billion that MS is gonna spend on fixing whatever happened...

Does make you think though...

Edit:
You should read some of the comments there.

Hambone
07-08-07, 11:52 AM
To this day I've still never met anyone in person that's had a failed 360.

I'm about 100% sure that if you put it on an open flat surface with nothing ontop of it, and don't move it while it's on or use a 3rd party cooling system - they never die.

I've never even once read "I had my 360 on a flat surface with open air, never moved or abused it - and it just died".

I've seen pictures of them behind glass in a tiny cabinet with no air... I've seen video of A-holes getting pi$$ed off they're being beated at a game and throwing their controllers at it. At least in my own mind, 75% of all failures are the fault of the user.

LurkerLito
07-08-07, 12:07 PM
Well I have had my 360 for over a year and I do know it definitely has issues with heat. Mine is on it's side but in a completely open area, but even so if the temp in my room exceeds 85F I can see video glitches within an hour of play. So for me I just don't use the 360 for most of the summer months and if I do I make it a point to play less than an hour.

|MaguS|
07-08-07, 12:14 PM
To this day I've still never met anyone in person that's had a failed 360.

I'm about 100% sure that if you put it on an open flat surface with nothing ontop of it, and don't move it while it's on or use a 3rd party cooling system - they never die.

I've never even once read "I had my 360 on a flat surface with open air, never moved or abused it - and it just died".

I've seen pictures of them behind glass in a tiny cabinet with no air... I've seen video of A-holes getting pi$$ed off they're being beated at a game and throwing their controllers at it. At least in my own mind, 75% of all failures are the fault of the user.

I had my X360 on a flat surface in an open entertainment center and its never been moved nor has it even been abused and it just died 3 weeks after launch. My replacement is running just fine since I recieved it though.

I love that, blame the users... sorry but most people don't move their systems when in use. Even though you want to defend MS on this its their fault. Look at the PS3, its designed to automatically turn off if it gets too hot, hell even temp wise it can continue running smoothly without an issue.

Peoples-Agent
07-08-07, 01:09 PM
I'd sooner a system with decent games and a high failure rate, than a reliable console sat gathering dust.

Marvel_us
07-08-07, 02:41 PM
Zomg! The PS3 has no games! I guess I should just throw mine out the window right now!

MS made a ****ty design. Hell you can look at the mobo layout, compare it to the PS3's layout and see that Xbox360 looks like a n00b design.

Bman212121
07-08-07, 03:05 PM
Zomg! The PS3 has no games! I guess I should just throw mine out the window right now!

MS made a ****ty design. Hell you can look at the mobo layout, compare it to the PS3's layout and see that Xbox360 looks like a n00b design.

Or just ignore the post completely and not derailed the thread...


@hambone: I would agree that some of the failures are probably from users that don't know any better, but I doubt that many could have been caused by ignorance. Anyone who cracked the manual probably saw a huge warning that said you need to keep the console in a well ventilated area.

firehawk
07-08-07, 03:09 PM
well iam a person who has had 2 360 failures. so this news doest surprise me at all

Marvel_us
07-08-07, 03:13 PM
Or just ignore the post completely and not derailed the thread...

Eh, this thread isn't heading anywhere anyway. We've had 3 or 4 threads this week about 360 failures. All of them with people saying the exact same things.

toxikneedle
07-08-07, 03:17 PM
I think the simplest way to look at it is that MS knew what they were doing when they decided that they want to be the first in the market. They took a huge gamble with that decision and to a certain extent it paid off. Now obviously there are negatives to being first, such as no internal HD-DVD, no HDMI, and the hardware problems.

People say that the PS3 has a lot less probs than the 360, yeah... but it came out a year after the 360. If you look at the prototype PS3 pics from E3 05, and compare them to the real PS3, you will see that the body is a lot bigger than it originally was. The 360 on the other hand packs a lot of hardware in a relatively small space.... which i'm sure they only did because many people disliked the xbox for its huge size and bulkiness.

Buenamos
07-08-07, 03:21 PM
MS made a ****ty design. Hell you can look at the mobo layout, compare it to the PS3's layout and see that Xbox360 looks like a n00b design.

bahahahaahahahaha. Did anyone else just read that comment? It's a n00b design! hahahahahahahaha

people make me laugh.

Marvel_us
07-08-07, 03:24 PM
I think the simplest way to look at it is that MS knew what they were doing when they decided that they want to be the first in the market. They took a huge gamble with that decision and to a certain extent it paid off. Now obviously there are negatives to being first, such as no internal HD-DVD, no HDMI, and the hardware problems.

People say that the PS3 has a lot less probs than the 360, yeah... but it came out a year after the 360. If you look at the prototype PS3 pics from E3 05, and compare them to the real PS3, you will see that the body is a lot bigger than it originally was. The 360 on the other hand packs a lot of hardware in a relatively small space.... which i'm sure they only did because many people disliked the xbox for its huge size and bulkiness.

Eh the PS3 isn't that much bigger than the 360. Not anywhere near the size differences between the original Xbox and PS2. Also don't neglect the fact that the PS3 has a bigger disc drive, built in HDD and internal power supply. The 360 has far less hardware under the hood....the cooling design just sucks.

toxikneedle
07-08-07, 03:27 PM
Eh the PS3 isn't that much bigger than the 360. Not anywhere near the size differences between the original Xbox and PS2. Also don't neglect the fact that the PS3 has a bigger disc drive, built in HDD and internal power supply. The 360 has far less hardware under the hood....the cooling design just sucks.
No I'm talking about the prototype PS3 from E305 and the one that actually came out. The PS3 has a completely different internal layout, and cooling system than the 360, so comparing both of them in size isn't too fair.

|MaguS|
07-08-07, 03:38 PM
No I'm talking about the prototype PS3 from E305 and the one that actually came out. The PS3 has a completely different internal layout, and cooling system than the 360, so comparing both of them in size isn't too fair.

Thats what he's saying, The Protype PS3 is not much different from the retail release. It's slightly thicker but that could be that Sony realized they needed better cooling.

Again just like Marvel brought up in the PS3 there are far more components that generate higher heat and yet it runs nice and stable.

The cooling design behind the X360 is poor, it barely moves any air at all and the system kills itself by overheating. I mean if they knew it generated so much heat why didn't they put power down when it overheats, PCs do that now as does the PS3.

Marvel_us
07-08-07, 03:38 PM
bahahahaahahahaha. Did anyone else just read that comment? It's a n00b design! hahahahahahahaha

people make me laugh.

Maybe when you actually study some engineering you'll understand. I'm not even the first person to say that. That same statement had been echoed on a few creditable boards...beyond3d for example.

How else do you explain the failure rate of the 360? Do you honestly think that there is NOTHING wrong with the design...please.

|MaguS|
07-08-07, 03:46 PM
If anyone wants to see the difference in layout and design of the boxes look up pictures of them gutted on google. The PS3s cooling is alone far superior to anything any console has ever had. Its massive and designed around moving air. The X360 uses something that looks out of a PC with a duct that sucks the air out.

Mathesar
07-08-07, 05:04 PM
Ive had my 360 since launch day (Oct 2005 unit) and its been flawless, I feel lucky after reading about all the 360 failures. My PS3 has been fine as well but I dont think ive heard of any failures with it(?) Definately a solid console it just needs some damn games :)

Subtestube
07-08-07, 05:24 PM
The cooling design behind the X360 is poor, it barely moves any air at all and the system kills itself by overheating. I mean if they knew it generated so much heat why didn't they put power down when it overheats, PCs do that now as does the PS3.

I could be wrong, but IIRC, the 360 does shut down when it outright overheats. The endemic hardware failure issues are caused by sustained heat on the bus between the GPU and CPU, which causes the board to warp. That's not something you can detect, or turn the system off in the event of it occurring. It's a design flaw that should probably have been predicted, but it's not something you can do any error catching for once it's in there. The only real long term fixes are going to be:

New cooling
Re-laying out the board
Lower long term heat generation from the GPU and CPU.

This is all 'just what I've heard', but it makes sense to me, considering what I know of hardware.

EDIT: As a note - I have a 360 and love it, it's a great unit. That doesn't mean I can't see that there are design problems with it. At this point finger pointing is completely irrelevant - MS have actually done what they always should have, and agreed to replace all failed units within 3 years of sale.

Hambone
07-08-07, 06:52 PM
I played my 360 all day and it didn't break!

:jumping:


There are no bad 360's!!! It's all lies spread by SONY !!!