View Full Version : Formula 1 - McLaren get off the hook for stealing data
How is it that McLaren is off the hook, completely, without even so much as a slap on the wrist after being found in possession of an over 700 page technical dossier on Ferrari?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6918112.stm
I am not sure what kind of penalties should be imposed since I am not privy to the entire contents of the technical dossier BUT, this was theft of information that can easily make a difference in a race.
A points penalty or something equally harsh should be imposed along with a fine.
Heck, Schumi was slammed and gave up a lot for unsportsmanlike conduct on the track. This is a far more serious offense, other than the fact that Schumi could have caused serious and permanent physical harm.
I agree! No penalties is crap :lame:, they should at least be docked points to evenly match Ferraris for having those documents. But like the FIA said "This isnt over yet" so I'm pretty sure that they are still working on a penaltie. There is alot to lose here especially with Lewis in the game now! So im sure it's going to take time to work something out but I dont think they are getting off the hook scott free!
I don't suggest docking the drivers. But if they are provided with the tools to get in front of the competition (in this case the Ferraris) it is not out of the question.
I don't suggest docking the drivers. But if they are provided with the tools to get in front of the competition (in this case the Ferraris) it is not out of the question.the FIA should strip McLaren of all their team constructor's points, since that is what really matters, while leaving the driver's points alone (ie, the more team points you get, the more TV money you get. team points also determines which pit location you get the following season).
npras42
07-28-07, 01:07 PM
I think that unless it is proven McLaren benefitted from the dossier, then they are not guilty of anything. It was one of their employees (a highly influential one) that was in possession of the dossier not the whole of the McLaren team (or indeed anyone else at all).
I dont think there is anything the FIA could do. If there's no proof they used the dossier then no crime has been comitted in their eyes. As for Coughlan and Stepney, I'm sure there will be punishments (life bans?) as they have or will be found guilty of doing something wrong.
mr.pink
07-28-07, 01:08 PM
"guilty but no penalties" it is ridiculus
i am italian, i love ferrari, i feel betrayed by FIA
the FIA should strip McLaren of all their team constructor's points, since that is what really matters, while leaving the driver's points alone (ie, the more team points you get, the more TV money you get. team points also determines which pit location you get the following season).
Agreed but if the information benefited the team and allowed them to suggest ways to attack Ferrari on it's weaknesses to get ahead (i.e. overtakes and things of that nature) then it's all fair game.
However, without that information, a team points deduction would be the most apt way to go about it.
npras42
07-28-07, 01:24 PM
"guilty but no penalties" it is ridiculus
i am italian, i love ferrari, i feel betrayed by FIA
Gotta remember that F1 is a business more than anything... severe punishments like deducting all constructors points may seem fair if they were found guilty but the financial implications for future seasons may not be worth it.
Agreed but if the information benefited the team and allowed them to suggest ways to attack Ferrari on it's weaknesses to get ahead (i.e. overtakes and things of that nature) then it's all fair game.
However, without that information, a team points deduction would be the most apt way to go about it.i somewhat agree, but depends on what the drivers knew. ie, it's probably not fair to penalize the drivers, especially if they had no knowledge about the illegally obtained documents (but if they were privy to all the technical specs, then they too should be punished). but i find it highly unlikely that the team management would tell the drivers about the secret Ferrari documents, so as not to implicate them. the drivers may have benefited on the track, but they would have no way of knowing that McLaren was cheating.
so it would still be safest just to penalize the team and not the drivers. :)
i somewhat agree, but depends on what the drivers knew. ie, it's probably not fair to penalize the drivers, especially if they had no knowledge about the illegally obtained documents (but if they were privy to all the technical specs, then they too should be punished). but i find it highly unlikely that the team management would tell the drivers about the secret Ferrari documents, so as not to implicate them. the drivers may have benefited on the track, but they would have no way of knowing that McLaren was cheating.
so it would still be safest just to penalize the team and not the drivers. :)
I am not suggesting the drivers are complicit in this. I am saying that if they were giving team directions/strategies of attack or anything of that nature that gave them an advantage, even if they didn't know the basis of where it was obtained, this can be looked upon as an unfair advantage.
Knowing about brake bias' and things of that nature, seeing some holes that can be attacked would easily allow the team to provide directions on what to push for. Look @ Alonso's overtakes for example.
Gotta remember that F1 is a business more than anything... severe punishments like deducting all constructors points may seem fair if they were found guilty but the financial implications for future seasons may not be worth it.
1 team.
Pissing of all the others may not be the smartest idea, especially pissing off Ferrari which was clearly wronged.
If this was a team at the back of the grid would they have gotten away with it? I don't think so to be honest. Mclaren are a big and important team. Excluding them would do far more harm to Formula 1 than good.
If this was a team at the back of the grid would they have gotten away with it? I don't think so to be honest. Mclaren are a big and important team. Excluding them would do far more harm to Formula 1 than good.Ferrari would have been penalized if it was their team that had another's team's technical specs. ;) at the very least, if no constructor's points are taken away, they should pay a fine or something.
Capt. Picard
07-28-07, 05:22 PM
The crime/offense is that McLaren got possession of technical information of Ferrari. Whether they benefitted or not from this information is not relevant. The deed is still done. And the argument that McLaren hasn't benefitted fromm the information is imposible to prove since who can prove that the quilty person hasn't already made phoytocopies of some selected pages in this dossier. McLaren may yet benefit from this info when all this dust has settled.
Ferrari would have been penalized if it was their team that had another's team's technical specs. ;) at the very least, if no constructor's points are taken away, they should pay a fine or something.
I see what you mean but kicking them out of the championship would do more harm than good especially with the spectacle will be just Ferrari winning every race. And anyway I wouldn't want Massa winning the championship. yuk. Go Kimi.
FlyVomit
07-30-07, 09:59 AM
Anything that kicks Ferrari in the balls is fine by me
this story is not over yet, as FIA is appealing, on behalf of Ferrari, to the Court of Appeal. the politics of F1 is almost as interesting as what happens on the track on race weekends :):
http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story/?ID=215147&hubname=
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