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jcrox
08-01-07, 12:47 PM
I keep reading about how developers are switching their focus to consoles because "that's where the money is." After doing some research, and taking into account the types of games these PC developers that are switching their focus make, i have to ask the question "Really?"

Looking at the list that follows, my personal conclusion is that PC game developers aren't taking all aspects of this business into consideration. It reminds of several situations I have run into in the restaurant business; owners see that they can sell 1500 burgers a day for $6 at a 15% food cost and their greed drives them to drop their Lobster that they sell at 750 of at $40 at a 50% food cost. You get a higher return per item with the burgers but your profits are less and burgers aren't why their customers are coming to their restaurants....duped by superficial numbers.

Look at the top 20 selling console games, with a few exceptions, it's all kiddy stuff... pokemon and Mario. Now look at games that compete with Doom series, Quake 4, UT.... Gears sold 3.7 million copies.... Doom 3 sold 2.5 million PC copies 1.2 million more copies is a lot of money but, how many copies did Doom 3 sell for consoles to add to that number? And here's the real question... If these companies focus on consoles, then port to PC instead of the other way around how much of a hit on quality will there be for the PC version? AND, how will that relate to the PC sales?

Personally I think these companies are going to find, in the long run this will hurt their profits. PC gamers tend to avoid fluff and demand quality, make a quality game and you get quality sales, make a piss poor port or lame-o Mario game and PC gamers will scoff at it and you'll end up with more pirated copies out there than store bought. Again, keep in mind the types of games we're talking about here... unless of course ID software has a Mario style game in mind.... which I wouldn't put past Carmack these days.

Just my opinion.

Anyway here's the link and the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Top 20 console games of all time

The 20 best selling console games, not originally bundled.
1. Pokémon Red, Blue and Green (Game Boy - 20.08 million approximately, 10.23 million in Japan,[27] 9.85 million in US)[32]
2. Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES - 18 million)[24]
3. Nintendogs (DS - 14.79 million)[49]
4. Pokémon Gold and Silver (Game Boy - 14.51 million approximately, 7.6 million in US,[32] 6.91 million in Japan)[27]
5. Super Mario Land (Game Boy - 14 million)[24]
6. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2 - 13 million)[75]
Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire (GBA - 13 million)[53]
8. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2 - 12 million)[76]
9. Super Mario 64 (N64 - 11 million)[27]
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2 - 11 million)[65]
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2 - 11 million)[75]
12. Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen (GBA - 10.66 million)[45]
13. New Super Mario Bros. (DS - 10.52 million)[49]
14. Gran Turismo (PS1 - 10.5 million)[65]
15. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (10 million)[56]
Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES - 10 million)[24]
17. Final Fantasy VII (PS1 - 9.8 million, includes Final Fantasy VII International)[66]
18. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! (DS - 8.61 million)[49]
19. Gran Turismo 2 (PS1 - 8.5 million)[65]
20. Mario Kart 64 (N64 - 8.47 million approximately, 6.23 million in US,[34] 2.24 million in Japan)[27]

list of PC games (including Microsoft Windows, Macintosh, Linux) that have sold more than one million copies. Please note that the sales figures for expansion packs are not used in calculation of the sales figure for the original game.

* The Sims (16 million)[97]
* The Sims 2 (13 million)[98]
* StarCraft (9.5 million)[99]
* World of Warcraft (9 million current customers, which is different from box sales)[100]
o World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade [expansion pack] (3.5 million)[101]
* Half-Life (8 million)[102]
* Myst (6 million)[103]
* The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (4 million, including Xbox release)[104]
* RollerCoaster Tycoon (4 million for the original in North America alone)[105]
* Half-Life 2 (4 million)[106]. Does not include sales by Steam.
* Populous (4 million)[78]
* Guild Wars (includes Factions and Nightfall) (4 million)[107]
* Doom 3 (3.5 million)[108]
* EverQuest (3.5 million)[109]
* Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (3 million)[110] (1 million in US)[111]
o Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne [expansion pack] (1 million)[112]
* The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (3 million, includes Xbox 360 release)[15]
* Command & Conquer: Red Alert (3 million)[113]
* Age of Empires (3 million)[114]
o Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome [expansion pack] (1 million)[114]
* Cossacks 2: Napoleonic Wars (2.5 million)[115]

Edit: Doom 3 sole 3.5 million copies, not 2.5 million copies.... which I think furthers my case :)

SeriTonin
08-01-07, 01:04 PM
The fact that such a stinker like Doom 3 can sell that well on PC amazes me.

I think the problem is there's no line between consoles and pc's anymore.

Look at Doom 3, there's no way the xbox port sold half that, why? Cause most console gamers are sports and action/adventure, zombies.

Pc's are for fps, strategy, sim...well...were..

Again, WoW wouldnt have had half the success on consoles, that it's enjoying on pc's. But no one bothers to speak or look into that.

The problem is no one is trying anything different or unique to grab the attention of a pc anymore. The sims, wow....let's hope more games like Spore come out and change the game somewhat and sell through the roof.

jcrox
08-01-07, 01:13 PM
Look at Doom 3, there's no way the xbox port sold half that, why? Cause most console gamers are sports and action/adventure, zombies.

Pc's are for fps, strategy, sim...well...were..

.

Thats my point exactly... which is why I don't understand developers that make franchises like UT, Doom and Quake talking about focusing on consoles.... those types of games don't seem to reach nearly the same numbers on console as they do on PC and now the PC versions are likely to be less quality than they would be if developed for PC 1st and they think this will increase their profits?

Mr_LoL
08-01-07, 02:15 PM
Isn't it easier for a developer to make the game on the 360 and just port it over to the PC? I would have thought it will be the other way round but it seems thats noot the case.

Tygerwoody
08-01-07, 02:35 PM
A major reason Developers focus on consoles is do to Pirates. My little 9 year old brother knows how to torrent PC games(just found out this past weekend while visiting the family :eek:). This is a big issue and until this is resolved, you wont see many good single player games come to the PC exclusively as they will be torrented easily.

PC gaming will more and more turn towards multiplayer gaming as it is alot easier to control multiplayer games online than it is to control single player games on a person's PC.

PC gaming will never die, but eventually PC gamings will have a pretty much non existant single player list of games. PC gaming will be devoted to MMORPG's and other mainly multiplayer games. Unless some company comes out with a better way to prevent pirating, this thread will only continue.



Other reasons why PC gaming isn't popular is because nowadays PC's are sought at as "MySpace Machines" and thats it. Parents dont buy their kids PC's with gaming in mind. They buy them for email and myspace. Thats it. Kids are part of a TREMENDOUS amount of money that is all going directly to GAMING consoles.

If it wasn't for games like World of Warcraft, PC gaming would be in ALOT worse situation than it is now. While World of Warcraft is a junky game(imo), it put PC gaming back on the map.

six_storm
08-01-07, 02:38 PM
I don't see the problem here. I also don't see why if you are a "gamer", then why not own a PC and a console for your gaming fixes? Get both and get the best of both worlds.

S.I.N
08-01-07, 02:39 PM
The reason why many developers are now focusing on consoles is because it provides them better revenue. Many console FPS's are out selling PC ones. And just look how many now, "try before they buy" or say the game is coming out next week and I plan on buying it so thats why I'm downloading it from some torrent site. It use to be you not mention things like that here but its more common than ever. So in affect we are the ones to also blame.

hapooh
08-01-07, 02:52 PM
A major reason Developers focus on consoles is do to Pirates. My little 9 year old brother knows how to torrent PC games(just found out this past weekend while visiting the family :eek:). This is a big issue and until this is resolved, you wont see many good single player games come to the PC exclusively as they will be torrented easily.

PC gaming will more and more turn towards multiplayer gaming as it is alot easier to control multiplayer games online than it is to control single player games on a person's PC.

PC gaming will never die, but eventually PC gamings will have a pretty much non existant single player list of games. PC gaming will be devoted to MMORPG's and other mainly multiplayer games. Unless some company comes out with a better way to prevent pirating, this thread will only continue.



Other reasons why PC gaming isn't popular is because nowadays PC's are sought at as "MySpace Machines" and thats it. Parents dont buy their kids PC's with gaming in mind. They buy them for email and myspace. Thats it. Kids are part of a TREMENDOUS amount of money that is all going directly to GAMING consoles.

If it wasn't for games like World of Warcraft, PC gaming would be in ALOT worse situation than it is now. While World of Warcraft is a junky game(imo), it put PC gaming back on the map.

I agree fully. I would just add that game publishers know how and where to make money. And if there was money to be made there, they'd be there in full force. I think primarily what's happening is the publishers are making cross-port games, which means instead of getting a game specifically made for the PC, you'll get one that was also developed for the console. The downside of this is that cross ports in my experience are usually watered down versions of what the game would other wise have been if it were developed for the PC, and not the console. There are exceptions, but mostly I have been dissapointed with console ports

lumpyhed
08-01-07, 03:07 PM
One flaw with that restaurant analogy is that a group of friends do not visit the fancy restaurant, buy one meal then replicated it for all the rest or have some buy one of everything then give away replicated portions to everyone out the place..

SeriTonin
08-01-07, 03:43 PM
People keep saying consoles provide more revenue but your missing the point this poster and myself are making, if you put a game like doom 3 strictly on consoles, there's no way in hell it would sell 3.5 million like it did on PC.

The fact is, some franchises are always going to sell better on PC, because their genre is a niche in the PC Market.

PC ports usually lack quality from every aspect when brought to a console, from controls, to graphics, even levels being ripped apart to fit for a console (again, doom 3)

So I can understand why some are confused. Mark Rein pisses all over the pc community and says how declining it is, but I bet you UT3 for PC sells more copies than 360/ps3 combined, yet PC gets the verbal bashing even though it remains profitable.

I'm sick of the pirating card...look at the numbers above. Clearly, if PC games sold this well AND also got pirated ....then that's a lot of volume out there people are playing....more than even a console.

So pc gaming is dying, pirating is out of hand, yet doom 3 sells almost 4 million copies. Whatever.

jcrox
08-01-07, 03:57 PM
So you guy's think if let's say ID makes Doom 4 and puts their primary focus on developing for consoles and then ports the console version to the PC they'll make more money? Could very well be but, no one else looks at that list of top selling games and notices the lack of FPS's in it?

I'm just speculating here that if these companies focus on consoles the PC port will be inferior to what the game would be if it was developed for PC then ported to console and the PC sales will be significantly less.

Thus my restaurant analogy and the goofy way I look at it: (this is just an example, I am NOT saying I know something about Doom 4)

Doom 3 sold 3.5 million PC copies instead of 5 million due to piracy, consoles did squat...didn't break the 1 million mark. So, to avoid losing those 1.5 million pirated copies Doom 4 will be focused on console and then ported to the PC which, to me anyway, means it will be less of a PC game than it could have been and likely wont rank up there with other cutting edge new PC games. Just a guess but, I'm thinking this will = less over all sales.

tacos4me
08-01-07, 04:17 PM
A major reason Developers focus on consoles is do to Pirates. My little 9 year old brother knows how to torrent PC games(just found out this past weekend while visiting the family :eek:). This is a big issue and until this is resolved, you wont see many good single player games come to the PC exclusively as they will be torrented easily.

PC gaming will more and more turn towards multiplayer gaming as it is alot easier to control multiplayer games online than it is to control single player games on a person's PC.

PC gaming will never die, but eventually PC gamings will have a pretty much non existant single player list of games. PC gaming will be devoted to MMORPG's and other mainly multiplayer games. Unless some company comes out with a better way to prevent pirating, this thread will only continue.



Other reasons why PC gaming isn't popular is because nowadays PC's are sought at as "MySpace Machines" and thats it. Parents dont buy their kids PC's with gaming in mind. They buy them for email and myspace. Thats it. Kids are part of a TREMENDOUS amount of money that is all going directly to GAMING consoles.

If it wasn't for games like World of Warcraft, PC gaming would be in ALOT worse situation than it is now. While World of Warcraft is a junky game(imo), it put PC gaming back on the map.

Look at that list of top selling PC games.. you can pirate most of those, and some of them have even been released fairly recently. While piracy may indeed turn developers off from the PC, it's their crap games that are leading to crap sales. They're just looking for something to blame.

So why do consoles games sell so much better!? It's pretty obvious to me. Look at the console list. Kids games. Consoles are so cheap compared to a nice gaming rig, and these kids get them for their birthday, Christmas.. whatever. What else do they get or buy themselves? Games! They don't care what it is or how much it probably sucks, it's got Mario and a Pokemon on it, it MUST be awesome. They throw their (or their parents') money away. Developers realize this and pump out as many of these games as they can, a perfect example being the Pokemon series.

I guarantee you BioShock, Crysis, Gears of War, and CoD4 will sell well when they're released for the PC this year. Why? They don't suck ass! (at least they don't look to) and adults, that I think make up the majority of PC gamers, realize that. Adults buy decent games and don't waste their money. It's as simple as that. Developers need to stop using piracy as a scapegoat.

However, I won't deny that piracy has gotten worse with residential internet connections getting worse all the time. It has gotten worse, but it's not the cause of the PC gaming.. drought.

nutcrackr
08-01-07, 05:40 PM
I don't think it's a huge issue, I mean end of 2007 looks to be a pretty incredible year for PC gaming and that includes ports, multiplatform and exclusives. I don't see it being much different that the last generation in fact I see more and more multiplatform between all of the platforms. I don't want to argue whether or not consoles are more kiddie or not, I don't really see it for the 360. A good year for the PC in 2007 might even bring a few more devs to the table and steam will no doubt help publishers.