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|MaguS|
08-14-07, 09:49 PM
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/08/14/heavenly-sword-has-10gb-of-sound-data-alone/

Heavenly Sword is another one of those titles that is starting to take advantage of Blu-Rays capacity. The game's audio data alone is over 10Gbs. Yeah there is multilangauge support and alot of uncompressed sound but isn't that good?

Heavenly Sword has over 10 GB of sound FX, with three and a half hours of music, 4500 different lines of dialogue, and an hour and a half of cut scenes recorded in eleven (!) different languages.

Those bolded lines alone put it to the level of some movies and TV shows... The music isn't some ****ty computer generated **** either, they got the orchestra that did Passion of the Christ to do it.

Yeah they could do some compression and remove the multiple languages but why do it if you can have it all on a single release? PC Games have been doing it, why not console? Im tired of being stuck on a single dub when another could be so much better (dout it for this game though, Andy Serkis rocks).

Wonder how much the rest of the game takes up?

toxikneedle
08-14-07, 10:00 PM
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/08/14/heavenly-sword-has-10gb-of-sound-data-alone/

Heavenly Sword is another one of those titles that is starting to take advantage of Blu-Rays capacity. The game's audio data alone is over 10Gbs. Yeah there is multilangauge support and alot of uncompressed sound but isn't that good?



Those bolded lines alone put it to the level of some movies and TV shows... The music isn't some ****ty computer generated **** either, they got the orchestra that did Passion of the Christ to do it.

Yeah they could do some compression and remove the multiple languages but why do it if you can have it all on a single release? PC Games have been doing it, why not console? Im tired of being stuck on a single dub when another could be so much better (dout it for this game though, Andy Serkis rocks).

Wonder how much the rest of the game takes up?
I may be wrong on this but AFAIK, 4500 lines of dialogue is nothing new or special for games. The amount of music is impressive but an hour and a half of cutscenes.... uhhh this is good? Who wants to watch an hour and a half of cutscenes?!

And yeah PC games have been doing multilanguage stuff this whole time, yet they still somehow don't end up anywhere close to 10GB of sound effects.

bugmeplz
08-14-07, 10:01 PM
i guess that is kind of interesting. BTW, what are some of the games that have multi-lingual cutscenes? im a pc gamers and havent run across many.. iirc resident evil 4 had them, thats all i can think of

|MaguS|
08-14-07, 10:05 PM
I may be wrong on this but AFAIK, 4500 lines of dialogue is nothing new or special for games. The amount of music is impressive but an hour and a half of cutscenes.... uhhh this is good? Who wants to watch an hour and a half of cutscenes?!

And yeah PC games have been doing multilanguage stuff this whole time, yet they still somehow don't end up anywhere close to 10GB of sound effects.

4500 lines of spoken dialogue is alot for a game... an hour and a half of cutscenes is nothing really.. ever play one of the xenosaga games?

The sound is uncompressed, all PC games compressed their audio... many PS3 games are choosing to go uncompressed now. Look at Kojima, he is thrilled that he can finally use uncompressed audio...

bugmeplz, No clue really... I don't really play many multilangue games on the PC due to a lack of them that are released in the US.

Zelda_fan
08-14-07, 10:17 PM
Nice. Glad to see Sony is finally (*edit*) making developers (*edit*) uncompress everything they possibly can in order to take up as much space as possible. Otherwise people might start thinking blu0ray is useless.

|MaguS|
08-14-07, 10:20 PM
Nice. Glad to see Sony is finally uncompressing everything they possibly can in order to take up as much space as possible. Otherwise people might start thinking blu0ray is useless.

Yup glad Sony is doing that... eer wait, game isn't being developed by Sony.

nekrosoft13
08-14-07, 10:20 PM
Nice. Glad to see Sony is finally uncompressing everything they possibly can in order to take up as much space as possible. Otherwise people might start thinking blu0ray is useless.

good post.

Zelda_fan
08-14-07, 10:34 PM
Yup glad Sony is doing that... eer wait, game isn't being developed by Sony.

my bad, I'll edit my post

buffbiff21
08-14-07, 10:58 PM
ever play one of the xenosaga games?

Yes, and the audio quality for the recorded voices was utter ass. Hopefully they can up the sampling rate or something with BD.

Ninja Prime
08-14-07, 11:09 PM
three and a half hours of music

In the age of mp3's, thats about 200 megs. OMFG, BL0-RAY HAS THE CAPACITY FOR 200 MEGS! 4500 lines at an average of 5 seconds per line (estimate) is 45000 seconds = 6.25 hours or about 400 megs. Err, why are we supposed to be impressed again? 600 megs?

Hour and a half of cutscenes? For one, thats sucks, I don't play cutscenes. For two, hour and half at Hd-dvd quality is what, 3 gigs? Ok, so you're impressed that they can handle 3.6 gigabytes? How big is a DVD, 9 gigabytes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 3.6 fits in 9?

Alrighty then.

LycosV
08-15-07, 04:25 AM
Not compressing audio is just plain wasting space. Audio decoding quality and speed is so good now there's no reason not to do it. Kind of like textures, uncompressed you're just wasting all that memory.
On the number of lines of speech: it's quality, not quantity that's really important with voice overs IMO. Some voice acting is SO BAD that it would be better that they just not put it in there.

Buio
08-15-07, 08:13 AM
Blu-ray speed @ 2x = 72Mbps, or 9MB/s. Uncompressed 5 min sound at CD quality is about 52MB large, which would mean it takes 6 sec to read. Compressed 5 min sound at very high quality (where its almost impossible to hear difference from uncompressed) is below 9 MB in size and therefore takes less that 1 sec to read.

With all things uncompressed (to impress on how much space it takes on Blu-ray) things add up fast to long load times and high memory usage (PS3 has 256MB + 256MB video mem).

Streaming uncompressed songs are of course a possiblity, but mixing and smooth gap-less transitions become hard if not even impossible. Streaming dialog is of course fully plausible, but who wants uncompressed voice audio, knowing that human voice spectrum isn't that demanding on quality.

saguy
08-15-07, 08:37 AM
I do not have a PS3 but I think larger disc capacity for video cutscenes is vital these days. Gone are the days where the game cutscene looked far better than the in-game graphics. Now most cutscenes look poor compared to the high resolution in-game graphics.

Unlike some of you I enjoy a good story and I have no problem with hours of cutscenes. That's why I enjoy games like MGS and Final Fantasy. These games are as just as much about story as they are about action.

Audio and texture compression is not as much of an issue as they bring reletively small improvements to quality, but I suppose everything helps.

Badboy_12345
08-15-07, 09:18 AM
I do not have a PS3 but I think larger disc capacity for video cutscenes is vital these days. Gone are the days where the game cutscene looked far better than the in-game graphics. Now most cutscenes look poor compared to the high resolution in-game graphics.

Unlike some of you I enjoy a good story and I have no problem with hours of cutscenes. That's why I enjoy games like MGS and Final Fantasy. These games are as just as much about story as they are about action.

Audio and texture compression is not as much of an issue as they bring reletively small improvements to quality, but I suppose everything helps.

in game cutscenes dont require large disc capacity as its all scripted...

Ruined
08-15-07, 09:24 AM
Oblivion on XBOX 360 has over 50 hours of dialogue and just as much music if not more. Much more audio data than Heavenly Sword. Oblivion fit on a DVD9 with fantastic quality.

As this game is being developed for Sony, the devs are simply uncompressing everything to make it look like it needs the extra space. Which is of course, ridiculous if you know your way around a PC & a media encoder.

The only thing Blu-Ray brings to the table for games is longer load times and ability to store hours and hours of HD FMV. Obviously no one wants the former and the benefit of the latter is questionable since many would prefer interactive cutscenes -instead of a prerendered movie - due to the power and graphics capabilities of today's GPUs. Some might even say that prerendered cutscenes are a step back from the place Half Life 2 got us to - especially the massive amount you'd need to have them not fit on a DVD9... you'd be watching the game more than actually playing it!

Let's face it, Sony is trying to justify something that obviously gives little to no benefit to gamers. A quick look at multiplatform reviews indicate that 95% of multiplatform games look better, or at worst the same, on XBOX 360 with its DVD9. Obviously, BD is not all Sony is hoping to convince you it is for gaming. Although, if you are a PC gamer/enthusiast, I'm sure you knew all of this already. :)

I must say though Magus, I agree with your topic. It's not the size the counts, its how you use it. And PS3 devs hired by Sony are using the most inefficient method to store a/v data on disc in order to make it look like the extra space is needed when it is obviously not. If they "used" the space more efficiently with codecs like AVC/VC1/MP3/AAC/WMA etc instead of MPEG2 and uncompressed WAV, then they could easily fit this onto a smaller disc like a DVD9.

Ruined
08-15-07, 12:06 PM
I think that reading half of the responses in this thread LITERALLY lowered my I.Q. because suddenly I'm being told that audio compression is a good thing.

I thought the ENTIRE POINT of having HD audio equipment/Blu-Ray or HD-DVD was so you could have the "7.1 TrueHD" uncompressed audio along with the HD picture. But apparently the use of uncompressed audio in games is retarded and is just Sony's way of trying to show us that Blu-Ray REALLY is useful when it TOTALLY isn't!!!

YAY!! Go nvnews Console Forum Trolling Team!!! *Cheers!!!!*

Yeah...right.....

TrueHD is not uncompressed, it is mathematically lossless compressed audio. And lossless sound is most definitely overkill for videogames. Hell, it could even be considered overkill for movies - listening tests on Hydrogen Audio forums have proved that people cannot tell the difference between LAME MP3 @ 256kbps and uncompressed CD audio (5.5:1 compression ratio). Same goes with WMA9 VBR @ 192kbps and CD audio (7.3:1 compression ratio). The bottom line is, if done right you won't be able to tell the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio - that doesn't mean its bad, but it doesn't mean its any better either. To draw an analogy, look at the difference between Doom 3 "Ultra" mode and "High" mode; the former uses uncompressed textures while the latter uses DXT5 texture/normalmap compression - yet there is little to no difference between the two... but Ultra takes up twice as much space/video ram!

Sony is most definitely encouraging the use of uncompressed audio for two reasons - first, it makes BD look like it has a purpose, and second because you might as well not compress it if you don't have to because leaving it uncompressed takes less dev time.

You talk about lowering I.Q. yet you're stating that lossless audio is going to make a significant difference in a video game... Heck, people can't even tell the difference between well-encoded lossy and lossless when the only thing they are doing is trying to tell the difference between the two, nevermind running, shooting, etc!

Marvel_us
08-15-07, 05:23 PM
Funny this topic came up.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=81458

Is Blu-ray really necessary or not for this gen? Who knows but I've seen pretty much all developers who speak on it, welcoming the extra space. Both Sony and non-Sony developers.

Buio
08-15-07, 08:00 PM
I think that reading half of the responses in this thread LITERALLY lowered my I.Q. because suddenly I'm being told that audio compression is a good thing.

I thought the ENTIRE POINT of having HD audio equipment/Blu-Ray or HD-DVD was so you could have the "7.1 TrueHD" uncompressed audio along with the HD picture. But apparently the use of uncompressed audio in games is retarded and is just Sony's way of trying to show us that Blu-Ray REALLY is useful when it TOTALLY isn't!!!

YAY!! Go nvnews Console Forum Trolling Team!!! *Cheers!!!!*

Yeah...right.....

Sorry, but we made several good points against using uncompressed data for _games_ on the PS3.

I really like the PS3 and also favor Blu-ray for next gen movie media.

But using uncomressed media for games when its impossible to hear/see any difference and therefore increasing loading times and internal memory used by a huge marging is a bad idea.

Stuff like The Darkness did is really cool. Putting ingame streamed media for tv shows is fun and creative way of using the storage space. Using uncompressed media just for the sake of it isn't.

For movies, if you check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray you see that there is option for having very high quality multichannel compressed sound in the spec. And thats just for Blu-ray movies, where its only a matter of space. If there is enough space, well put a uncompressed soundtrack on the movie.

But thats a whole different story than for a game.

slick
08-15-07, 11:11 PM
Funny this topic came up.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=81458

Is Blu-ray really necessary or not for this gen? Who knows but I've seen pretty much all developers who speak on it, welcoming the extra space. Both Sony and non-Sony developers.

Sure, it's not like they're going to say the extra space is a bad thing - it most definitely isn't. But does that mean it's absolutely necessary to create a high quality next-gen gaming experience? No, it's not, as is quite evident via 360.

ralinn
08-16-07, 05:33 AM
But using uncomressed media for games when its impossible to hear/see any difference and therefore increasing loading times and internal memory used by a huge marging is a bad idea.
Doesn't depend on the sound setup you have though? I know quite a few sound nerd and they're almost masturbating over this news. I do agree though, for most of us, this is kinda useless.

Marvel_us
08-16-07, 11:17 AM
Sure, it's not like they're going to say the extra space is a bad thing - it most definitely isn't. But does that mean it's absolutely necessary to create a high quality next-gen gaming experience? No, it's not, as is quite evident via 360.

Well if you're gonna say that then nothing this gen is really necessary. As proven with the Wii. If Xbox360 owners are okay with their UT disc holding 20 maps as apposed to 40 in the PS3 version then fine. What is the problem with Blu-ray in PS3?

ps. I just pulled that comparison from no where btw.

Lyme
08-16-07, 11:51 AM
Well if you're gonna say that then nothing this gen is really necessary. As proven with the Wii. If Xbox360 owners are okay with their UT disc holding 20 maps as apposed to 40 in the PS3 version then fine. What is the problem with Blu-ray in PS3?

ps. I just pulled that comparison from no where btw.

Kind of a moot argument right now:
"He went on to add: "If you think down the road - well maybe the next UT beyond this one - on Blu-ray we might fill the whole damn disc with all the cool stuff the mod makers make.""

As for the uncompressed audio debate. If you have a 256kb/s uncompressed audo stream and compress it using a lossless codec, it will uncompress to exactly the same data. As such, especially in audo, you can achive quite high compression ratios with zero loss of data. The big thing to remember is that you use a lossess codec and not a lossy (which removes data upon compression).

MustangSVT
08-16-07, 05:35 PM
I think that reading half of the responses in this thread LITERALLY lowered my I.Q. because suddenly I'm being told that audio compression is a good thing.

I thought the ENTIRE POINT of having HD audio equipment/Blu-Ray or HD-DVD was so you could have the "7.1 TrueHD" uncompressed audio along with the HD picture. But apparently the use of uncompressed audio in games is retarded and is just Sony's way of trying to show us that Blu-Ray REALLY is useful when it TOTALLY isn't!!!

YAY!! Go nvnews Console Forum Trolling Team!!! *Cheers!!!!*

Yeah...right.....
Even if games did have "7.1 TrueHD", which they don't (and btw TrueHD is a compression, it's not "uncompressed"), you wouldn't be able to use it.

How many of you have your PS3 hooked up to a high-end receiver via HDMI that can pass audio through HDMI (i.e. be able to play uncompressed PCM 5.1 from the HDMI input). I bet none of you have that, since the receivers that accept audio over HDMI are over $1000. And I bet nearly all of you wouldn't notice the difference in audio quality in a 360 (or PS3) game with Dolby 5.1 and "uncompressed 5.1", that is assuming you have the proper receiver to handle that.

Lastly, big deal that it has an hour and a half of cutscenes. Who wants that? I sure don't. I don't even like pre-rendered cutscenes that much, I'd rather have them use in-game engine like Halo 2 cutscenes.

H3avyM3tal
08-16-07, 07:15 PM
Lastly, big deal that it has an hour and a half of cutscenes. Who wants that? I sure don't. I don't even like pre-rendered cutscenes that much, I'd rather have them use in-game engine like Halo 2 cutscenes.

Errr, but the cutscenes are made by the in game engine...

crainger
08-16-07, 07:31 PM
Halo 2 could have done with some pre rendered cutscenes. The model and texture popups were pretty crap. Especially during the early city intro. :(