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CDE_1246
08-28-07, 10:07 PM
Ok so here you have it. PC's and Consoles. You have and Xbox 360 that costs about 300-400$$ and then you have a PC around 800$$ or more. The Xbox 360 or the PS3 (which is around the same price), both outperform PC's when it comes to mostly everything. Why is it that consoles are so fast but so cheap when they beat PC's that are several times there price? I just don't get it and it frustrates me so much. I see my brother playing Bioshock on the Xbox and it looks amazing and runs amazing, when my PC which looks around the same but lags like crazy and cant compare to the performance but is worth much more money. My PC is also well cooled and well maintained while the Xbox overheats constantly and is never maintained with I'm sure has plenty of dust build up in it still outperforms my PC. Why is this? I would like to have and nice discussion about this because this has always bothered me.

CaptNKILL
08-28-07, 10:53 PM
Honestly man, your PC is pretty outdated, it isn't really that surprising that an Xbox 360 can pull smoother framerates in new games.

A current $800 PC would easily match an Xbox 360 (not including the monitor of course).

EDIT: Also, dust build up and cooling are the last things that would determine performance. The age and market position (low end, mid range, high end etc.) of the components are a much bigger factor.

CDE_1246
08-28-07, 11:00 PM
I'm not gonna deny my PC is old as **** but still consoles are way cheaper than PC's.

CaptNKILL
08-28-07, 11:04 PM
Another thing... consoles are sold at a rather large loss as far as I know. Microsoft probably makes the majority of their xbox profits from game sales since they get a little piece of every one sold. PCs don't really have anything like this so the components themselves have to cover their own costs.

And I apologize if my first response was a little blunt, but PCs definitely don't hold their dollar value the way consoles do. That is no longer an $800 PC.

crainger
08-28-07, 11:04 PM
I'm not gonna deny my PC is old as **** but still consoles are way cheaper than PC's.

Not if you shop and sell smartly.

CaptNKILL
08-28-07, 11:11 PM
Not if you shop and sell smartly.
Very true.

I just upgraded my system a few weeks ago and had to replace my CPU, Mobo and RAM. I eBayed the RAM I bought over a year and a half ago and it sold for $20 more than my NEW ram cost. If I took the time to resell my mobo, CPU and heatsink I could make back all but maybe $100 of my upgrade, and this system was WELL worth that cost.

Same with video cards.

Spend $100 every 6-9 months to "trade in" to the next big card and you always have the best, without ever having to plunk down $600 at a time.

Actually, I've had my 8800GTX for around 9 months now. It must be getting close to upgrade time. :D

DarkJedi664
08-28-07, 11:24 PM
Dude, I wrote about this topic a few times on my blog (the most recent post no less). It's an inevitable truth, a sad one at that. Game developers care more about consoles than PCs, as it makes them more money. Sigh, I just bought a 360 today :(

CaptNKILL
08-28-07, 11:27 PM
Also, if you don't think an awesome gaming computer can be built for under $800:

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.asp?ID=5929512

8800GTS, E6550, 2Gb PC-6400, Gigabyte P35 board....

That isn't even taking overclocking into account. If we were talking about possibly overclocking I'd swap the CPU with an E4300 to save $50 and easily crank it up to 2.8Ghz or more.

Considering what you get for the money, thats a freaking amazing PC. The price\performance ratio of gaming computers has never been better than it is now.

Sure, an Xbox 360 will still perform pretty damn good for the money, and if you don't notice the difference in graphics quality between it and a good PC running smoothly at high settings at a high resolution, an Xbox is probably the better choice.

But if you want the best graphics and the most options and don't mind spending more money, a gaming PC is still the best choice... as its been for the past decade or more.

nekrosoft13
08-28-07, 11:30 PM
Not if you shop and sell smartly.

very true ;)

7950gx2, costed me about 100 bucks, 8800gtx costed me about 80 bucks ;)

DarkJedi664
08-28-07, 11:41 PM
It's not just an issue of cost, well it's part; like what would a user rather have, a $350 Xbox360, where all they have to do is hook it up to their TV, and that's it; or spend $1000+ on a gaming PC and deal with all the problems with Windows, drivers, etc...? Plus, almost every cross-platform game has been better on the 360, and PC gamers have gotten the shaft. Look at COD2, constant 60 frames on a 360, 20-30 frames on a PC (Hell I got 15 frames with my 6800 Ultra!). PC games are getting less and less love, and it's truly sad :(

nekrosoft13
08-28-07, 11:42 PM
deal with all the problems with Windows, drivers, etc...? Plus, almost every cross-platform game has been better on the 360, and PC gamers have gotten the shaft. Look at COD2, constant 60 frames on a 360, 20-30 frames on a PC (Hell I got 15 frames with my 6800 Ultra!).

:rofl

crainger
08-28-07, 11:54 PM
PC games are getting less and less love, and it's truly sad :(

That's true to a certain extent. BUT it could be changing. Bioshock plays great on PC. Crysis is on it's way, also Ubisoft are aiming to get some great PC games out like Far Cry 2.

DarkJedi664
08-28-07, 11:59 PM
I estimate there's a good 10,000 people worldwide like us, upgrade our computers to the highest, etc...yes there's millions of console gamers. Those millions = LOTS of $ for console manufacturers and game devs/publishers. I mean, I highly doubt even Crysis will sell a million copies. There's only 3 PC exclusive titles I'm looking forward to, Crysis, World in Conflict, and Far Cry 2. Everything else, is going to be on the 360.

CDE_1246
08-29-07, 12:16 AM
Still, I will never dump PC gaming :) Theres just something about having you own personal gaming PC with LED Cathodes and see through interiors with a customized desktop and a killer sound system with a light up keyboard and mouse all designed for gaming.

3DBrad
08-29-07, 12:21 AM
consoles = 30fps usually

There is a big difference between how much power is required to run game at 30fps and 60fps.

Danik
08-29-07, 12:38 AM
You're missing one very important thing as well. Even if you buy a PC loaded with the best hardware for gaming you can run many other programs that a console cannot, as well as use many peripherals (printers, scanners, etc) that many people keep for longer than the life of their PC and Console.

|MaguS|
08-29-07, 12:41 AM
consoles = 30fps usually

There is a big difference between how much power is required to run game at 30fps and 60fps.

And? They still provide the same game experiance...

Warhawk right now is probably one of the best MP games I have played in months. Both on PC and Consoles.

Dreamingawake
08-29-07, 01:35 AM
I blame developers.

If they really truly wanted to utilize the power of a high end quad core and
SLI rig, for arguments sake they could. However it may take longer to develop
software and in the end they'd be leaving out all the users with lower end
hardware.

Developers who make PC games are kind of in a pinch because they have to
cater to a wide range of PC hardware, where as it's the same for everyone
with a 360/PS3.

In time though, I think it will become easier for developers to utilize the full
power of todays, and future high end PC's, and once they do consoles will
be left in the dust for good.

Bman212121
08-29-07, 01:47 AM
It's not just an issue of cost, well it's part; like what would a user rather have, a $350 Xbox360, where all they have to do is hook it up to their TV, and that's it; or spend $1000+ on a gaming PC and deal with all the problems with Windows, drivers, etc...? Plus, almost every cross-platform game has been better on the 360, and PC gamers have gotten the shaft. Look at COD2, constant 60 frames on a 360, 20-30 frames on a PC (Hell I got 15 frames with my 6800 Ultra!). PC games are getting less and less love, and it's truly sad :(

Must of forgot to turn of down the default AA or something. I locked mine to 60 fps with almost no drops in framerate unless you are looking at the bushes or a smoke grenade goes off. You can easily run 720p @ 60fps in COD2 on a 6800U. Also, I highly doubt that even the 360 always runs 60 frames no matter what. It might do it most of the time, but there are always times where your going to tank a little. If it didn't, that means that either the lod was turned down for things that would normally cause a slowdown or the hardware isn't hardly being used most of the time so it can still manage to keep 60 fps under any conditions.

Honestely this discussion hasen't really gone anywhere the dozens of times it has come up.There are times where a console is nice, but there are times where the flexbility of the pc are better. If a game doesn't run as good as I want I have the ability to change settings on the pc. A console is nice that you can just pop in the disc and play. I have both for these reasons. :D

CaptNKILL
08-29-07, 01:57 AM
And? They still provide the same game experiance...

For you maybe.

30fps is just plain slow for any game that requires fast or precise movements.

People tend to just get used to the choppiness and the input lag (which there is a lot of at 30fps, simply because the frame rate isn't high enough to instantly respond to your movements) and just accept that that is smooth, but when you play one game at 60+ and then try to play another at 30, there is a pretty huge difference.

I don't play many console games, so I'm used to 60fps+. The console games I have played in the past 10 years (for Playstation, Playstation 2, Xbox and 360) usually ran at 30 or less most of the time. Some, far far less than 30 (mostly Playstation 1 games).

If you primarily play console games and you're used to 30fps or less, then obviously it isn't a problem.

If you're used to making games run at 60fps on a PC (by upgrading or adjusting settings), being forced to run at 30fps is like trying to fight with 10 pound sand bags tied to your arms and legs.

SOAD
08-29-07, 04:34 AM
Ok so here you have it. PC's and Consoles. You have and Xbox 360 that costs about 300-400$$ and then you have a PC around 800$$ or more. The Xbox 360 or the PS3 (which is around the same price), both outperform PC's when it comes to mostly everything. Why is it that consoles are so fast but so cheap when they beat PC's that are several times there price? I just don't get it and it frustrates me so much. I see my brother playing Bioshock on the Xbox and it looks amazing and runs amazing, when my PC which looks around the same but lags like crazy and cant compare to the performance but is worth much more money. My PC is also well cooled and well maintained while the Xbox overheats constantly and is never maintained with I'm sure has plenty of dust build up in it still outperforms my PC. Why is this? I would like to have and nice discussion about this because this has always bothered me.


no offense mate, but that pc is ancient. Get a cheap ass motherboard, a C2D, some cheap DDR2 ram and a GTX and you have a flying pc. (nana2)

agentkay
08-29-07, 07:12 AM
You're missing one very important thing as well. Even if you buy a PC loaded with the best hardware for gaming you can run many other programs that a console cannot, as well as use many peripherals (printers, scanners, etc) that many people keep for longer than the life of their PC and Console.

Itīs not only that. Once a PC is used as it was originally intented, as a multi-purpose platform, not just for gaming, entertainment, but also for work, its value per Dollar skyrockets and leaves the console in the dust. It helps you to make a ****load of money and actually turns this whole price argument into a clear win for the PC.

I have yet to see one console or any of its games that actually made financial profits for the end user except of course the developers/publishers etc. I never heard of anyone that was paid for playing a console game though. :lol: Is there professional esports for consoles? If so, that might be the only real exception against my point.

rudedog
08-29-07, 07:15 AM
Also don't forget all the free content the PC community makes for our PC games. They keep old games fresh and it's all free.

You can get maps for CoD2 (360) but you have to pay for them. You also get very small MP games on the console(s) but I rather play a 64 player game of BF2-POE2 any day, not to mention the controls for FPS type games.

For me, console gaming suppliments my real gaming rig, and is great for a quick game here or there ( I own all three as well as a couple older systems and a bunch of hand helds).

Also console games are at least 10 buck more then PC games now (thank you console guys).

I'm not sure on this last one, however don't you need a gold membership (50 bucks) to play on line?

agentkay
08-29-07, 07:19 AM
I'm not sure on this last one, however don't you need a gold membership (50 bucks) to play on line?

True when it comes to Xbox Live (Gold), but AFAIK the PS3 has free online play.

ASUSEN7900GTX
08-29-07, 07:21 AM
but still Crysis might be "consolized" if so see it this way it is not a console game to start with and it will be a port from PC to Console..:D for a change hehehe

i still play a little FC D3 i still have to get around to play GRAW2 now that it is been patched a bit so some bugs must have vanished

well COnsloe games cost more than PC games at least in Sweden they do

so a PC is still a strong game platform although the idea with a PC from scratch wa sa tool and use as a help in some situations then how it became a gaming platform well i donīt know.

of course i can be wrong about what the PC was for in the beginning but is still used in many offices and companys for everything but gaming.

well anyways donīt loose faith PC gaming is all but Dying it is getting stronger by the Q but also more expensive games=hardware=$$$mucho money