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-   -   Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111204)

prashantinindia 04-06-08 10:38 AM

Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Its no longer possible to get OpenGL working on Geforce 2 MX card...

Title says it all.

Nvidia - please do a favour for your customers.

Thx.

Lethe 04-06-08 10:48 AM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
nVidia, as with MS, are not one bit interested in 'Customers', nor their concerns; their only goal as a Company is to make money and SELL new stuff.

There is no money in supporting old[er] cards nor drivers.

Nick

Linuxhippy 04-06-08 11:07 AM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
not properly supporting older cards has even the nice side effect that these people will eventually buy new nvidia cards ... so why should they care :-/

Mr.A 04-06-08 12:19 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethe
nVidia, as with MS, are not one bit interested in 'Customers', nor their concerns; their only goal as a Company is to make money and SELL new stuff.

There is no money in supporting old[er] cards nor drivers.

Nick

Yes that is the way Nvidia and M$ may think, but if it is the right way to think, I am not sure.

To my mind they will lose money, if they treat the linux community like they do.

Now is the time to provide documentation for all graphic chips.
Next time I will definitely buy a graphic card with open source drivers, because they simply work.
I don't have to install the driver by my self. Sure I can install the driver by my self, but as I see it from a "normal" user perspective I shouldn't have to do that.
Linux should simply work.

With TTM, DRI2, Gallium3d, the open source drivers from AMD, Intel will be very competitive in the near future.

So as I see this situation, NVIDIA should release some open source driver and documentation soon or they will lose some market share to AMD and Intel.

best wishes
Mr. A

ledoc 04-06-08 01:17 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Linuxhippy
not properly supporting older cards has even the nice side effect that these people will eventually buy new nvidia cards ... so why should they care :-/

Well, actually I regret having gone from a 6600 to a 8600 because the drivers are so crappy that I had to switch off (!!) eye candy to have comparable speed.
The advice can only be to NOT buy new nvidia cards if you want to make full use of them in linux!

blk 04-06-08 02:36 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
as much as i'm in favor of every last piece software being opensourced (in favorable licenses) i'll have to inform you that there is a difference between not "giving a sh*t about customers" and releasing OSS drivers - might i add that nvidia was quite early in release linux drivers at all (took ages over at old ati) - and they really weren't that bad when taking the fact away that it is a binary blob.
i think the tenor here is that we are glad nvidia is doing linux drivers at all but that we seriously beg and advise nvidia to consider and evaluate the benefits from releasing OSS drivers for their products (i'm confident figures will show that OSS-aware customers are (seriously considering) switching over to AMD products - which will be something that's gonna influence nvidia's position - maybe also IP-holding investors).

again thanks nvidia for your OSS commitment in the 2D Xorg driver.

Kirurgs 04-06-08 03:59 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Well, my 2 cents...

Linux is used in what, 5% of all computers? Not a big target audience, right? But still drivers are here...
Then the Windows guys don't need any OSS drivers thing, so does Mac dudes... Linux kernel, which is changing, makes hard to get new drivers ready, etc.
nVidia has it own secret thingies in drivers, which they won't publish.
I think this petition is going nowhere.
We can only ask to provide feature full, stable drivers, but then again, nVidia people can't even fix hibernate/suspend thing, they even can't say anything on that, no estimates or are they aware of the issue, etc. Jus a little feedback/plan would be really nice...
Yes, linux is kinda lego thing, bunch if legos, actually, which makes hard to develop drivers for...
Good thing is that Linux popularity grows, so does laptops, maybe nVidia will put more effort in making drivers for linux ;)

P.S. But, again, Linux is not widely used which doesn't make it appealing to develop drivers for and people won't start to use it, coz their HW is not working like expected, dead end... :(

Edit: I just discovered this to myself, didn't know this is that bad: Linux is used in ~ 0.5% of computers... MacOS about 2.8%...

txf 04-06-08 04:05 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blk

again thanks nvidia for your OSS commitment in the 2D Xorg driver.

This driver is very difficult for people outside of nvidia to develop. The code is obfuscated and next to impossible to read. Whilst it has an oss license, it's completely against the spirit of oss.

I head that Marcheau from the Nouveau project offered to de-obfuscate the nv driver, but was turned down, hence why nouveau is here today. And that is probably where you will get the best oss drivers for old unsupported cards...eventually.

Linuxhippy 04-06-08 05:08 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Right, the nv driver is completly unreadable.

There once was a version which was quite readable, but NVidia forced Xfree86 to include an obfuscated version which is almost impossible to read for almost everybody.
The very old, unobfuscated version is still there ... its really sad if you compare those two :-/

lg Clemens

supertin 04-06-08 09:15 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledoc
Well, actually I regret having gone from a 6600 to a 8600 because the drivers are so crappy that I had to switch off (!!) eye candy to have comparable speed.
The advice can only be to NOT buy new nvidia cards if you want to make full use of them in linux!

You're doing well. All I get with the 8500GT is black screen and lockup! :thumbdwn:

I'm about to try the beta driver, but have no expectations of it working.

Edit: I fully support the idea of nVidia releasing the source for the older generations of cards. It's not like we're going to steal the trade secrets and go back in time to use them.

pawels133 04-07-08 04:16 AM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirurgs
Well, my 2 cents...

Linux is used in what, 5% of all computers? Not a big target audience, right? But still drivers are here...
Then the Windows guys don't need any OSS drivers thing, so does Mac dudes... Linux kernel, which is changing, makes hard to get new drivers ready, etc.
nVidia has it own secret thingies in drivers, which they won't publish.
I think this petition is going nowhere.
We can only ask to provide feature full, stable drivers, but then again, nVidia people can't even fix hibernate/suspend thing, they even can't say anything on that, no estimates or are they aware of the issue, etc. Jus a little feedback/plan would be really nice...
Yes, linux is kinda lego thing, bunch if legos, actually, which makes hard to develop drivers for...
Good thing is that Linux popularity grows, so does laptops, maybe nVidia will put more effort in making drivers for linux ;)

P.S. But, again, Linux is not widely used which doesn't make it appealing to develop drivers for and people won't start to use it, coz their HW is not working like expected, dead end... :(

Edit: I just discovered this to myself, didn't know this is that bad: Linux is used in ~ 0.5% of computers... MacOS about 2.8%...

> linux is kinda lego thing, bunch if legos, actually, which makes hard to develop drivers for...

Nope, Linux is just evolving much faster than others. For example madwifi devs can adapt to it's changes in few hours so it's not a big problem. How do you know that Linux is used only in 0.5% of computers? There's no good way to measure Linux market share. Linux can be downloaded or copied from a friend. If NVIDIA won't open their drivers soon they'll pay for this in the future.

Niva 04-07-08 01:27 PM

Re: Petition : Please release the source code for legacy nvidia cards
 
I've heard AMD plans on going OSS but I wasn't aware it's official yet.

Recently I had the pleasure of installing linux on a intel chipset laptop and was shocked with 3d working out of the box and not having to install proprietary drivers... that was nice.

If AMD indeed goes OSS I will buy AMD in the future but when I made my last purchase I had seen much better linux support from nvidia, plus they do have this board where we can all send out annoying petitions :)


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