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nicorulez 04-24-08 09:26 PM

What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Price is no object. I want to know what the best LCD on the market is in the 52 inch and 57inch LCD televisions. I know that plasmas have better black levels, but I play games and do not want burn in. So, is it Sony or Samsung or Toshiba or Mitsubishi? Any surprises such as LG or Sharp? I would love to know.

Toss3 04-25-08 01:38 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nicorulez
Price is no object. I want to know what the best LCD on the market is in the 52 inch and 57inch LCD televisions. I know that plasmas have better black levels, but I play games and do not want burn in. So, is it Sony or Samsung or Toshiba or Mitsubishi? Any surprises such as LG or Sharp? I would love to know.

No LCD currently on the market, comes close to the Pioneer Kuro's in terms of picture quality, and I can guarantee you that burn-in is no longer an issue with the new range of plasmas.

The 50 inch fullHD kuro has scored 10/10 in every review I've seen so far and has been chosen as the best TV in the world last year by many reviewers.

The Panasonic pz85 is also much better than any lcd on the market and comes close to the Kuro in terms of black-level, and is much much cheaper.

If you do want to go the lcd route, even though they offer lesser picture quality, I'd recommend the new samsung 656 series as well as the top line Philips TVs.

Here's a review of the Panasonic pz85

Here's one of the Pioneer Kuro(and here)

Here's one of the top Philips

And of the Samsung

EDIT: The new JVC TV's look hot as well(very slim bezel), but cannot compete with the others in terms of picture quality:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images...JVCLT42ds9.jpg

npras42 04-25-08 07:32 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toss3
No LCD currently on the market, comes close to the Pioneer Kuro's in terms of picture quality, and I can guarantee you that burn-in is no longer an issue with the new range of plasmas.

The 50 inch fullHD kuro has scored 10/10 in every review I've seen so far and has been chosen as the best TV in the world last year by many reviewers.

The Panasonic pz85 is also much better than any lcd on the market and comes close to the Kuro in terms of black-level, and is much much cheaper.

If you do want to go the lcd route, even though they offer lesser picture quality, I'd recommend the new samsung 656 series as well as the top line Philips TVs.

Here's a review of the Panasonic pz85

Here's one of the Pioneer Kuro(and here)

Here's one of the top Philips

And of the Samsung

EDIT: The new JVC TV's look hot as well(very slim bezel), but cannot compete with the others in terms of picture quality:

That Pioneer isn't native 1080p which for a >50 inch display I would not find acceptable. Especially for console gaming and even more so for PC gaming.

I would recommend the latest W series Sony Bravia LCDs or the latest Toshiba Regza (?Rezga) LCDs.

Toss3 04-25-08 08:51 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by npras42
That Pioneer isn't native 1080p which for a >50 inch display I would not find acceptable. Especially for console gaming and even more so for PC gaming.

I would recommend the latest W series Sony Bravia LCDs or the latest Toshiba Regza (?Rezga) LCDs.

I posted a review of both versions of the Pioneer Plasma(Hd Ready and FullHD alike).

And as for your suggestions they both have their weaknesses. The W3000 series from Sony were pretty disappointing to be honest and definitely aren't worth the money. The w4000 series looks promising, but if the w3000 series is anything to go by, it isn't going to be great.

Toshiba is great, if you're on a budget that is. This guy did say money wasn't an issue, and the best TV money can buy right now is the Pioneer Elite Kuro 60''.

EDIT: Review of the 46W3000

npras42 04-25-08 09:29 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Sorry, I missed that other review. I'm sure that the plasmas are all well and good but I wouldn't buy one simply because I perceive them as being unreliable and power hungry.

There's actually a fix for the W3000 series via an updated frmware that comes on all the new ones and can be applied to the older ones - it fixes the purple haze issue from that review. It obviously still doesn't add 100Hz MotionFlow but that isn't a big deal unless you actually notice the 'judder'.

Although I don't own a W3000 (I have an older W2000) I still think its a very good TV and always get the feeling that the reviews tend to get extra picky when it comes to reviewing Sony models because they expect to get more since the TVs cost more. In the end as far as LCDs go I think those Sony models are still among the best PQ and provide the best UI/OSD and connectivity. I was purposefully ambiguous in saying W series because the W4000 will be out in Europe within 3-4 weeks so it might be worth waiting and seeing.

Yes, the Toshibas are priced like budget models but their deficiencies are so small it sometimes seems ridiculous to pay so much more for so little (especially when looking at the Sony TVs).

Toss3 04-25-08 09:53 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by npras42
Sorry, I missed that other review. I'm sure that the plasmas are all well and good but I wouldn't buy one simply because I perceive them as being unreliable and power hungry.

Plasmas actually don't use much more electricity than an LCD - the amount of electricity it uses depends on the picture it's showing, but most people just go by the wattage listed in the specs which is usually just the peak.

Quote:

There's actually a fix for the W3000 series via an updated frmware that comes on all the new ones and can be applied to the older ones - it fixes the purple haze issue from that review. It obviously still doesn't add 100Hz MotionFlow but that isn't a big deal unless you actually notice the 'judder'.
I didn't know about the fix, but I just don't think it bodes well for a TV that needs updating just to get it to work as it should. :-/ And 120Hz does make a very big difference when watching a movie(and is the only way lcds can come close to plasmas in terms of movement judder). For sports it's still terrible though, but you always have the option of turning it off.

Quote:

Although I don't own a W3000 (I have an older W2000) I still think its a very good TV and always get the feeling that the reviews tend to get extra picky when it comes to reviewing Sony models because they expect to get more since the TVs cost more. In the end as far as LCDs go I think those Sony models are still among the best PQ and provide the best UI/OSD and connectivity. I was purposefully ambiguous in saying W series because the W4000 will be out in Europe within 3-4 weeks so it might be worth waiting and seeing.
Sony do have some good TVs, that usually score pretty high, the w3000 series was just a big let down. But the fact is that Samsung uses the same panels and sells 'em for a lot less.

Quote:

Yes, the Toshibas are priced like budget models but their deficiencies are so small it sometimes seems ridiculous to pay so much more for so little (especially when looking at the Sony TVs).
But if money wasn't an obstacle, would you still get one?

npras42 04-25-08 10:15 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toss3
Plasmas actually don't use much more electricity than an LCD - the amount of electricity it uses depends on the picture it's showing, but most people just go by the wattage listed in the specs which is usually just the peak.



I didn't know about the fix, but I just don't think it bodes well for a TV that needs updating just to get it to work as it should. :-/ And 120Hz does make a very big difference when watching a movie(and is the only way lcds can come close to plasmas in terms of movement judder). For sports it's still terrible though, but you always have the option of turning it off.


Sony do have some good TVs, that usually score pretty high, the w3000 series was just a big let down. But the fact is that Samsung uses the same panels and sells 'em for a lot less.



But if money wasn't an obstacle, would you still get one?

The Samsungs do use the same panels but they are often not as good. The image processing (the Bravia Engine for Sony) makes a huge difference to image quality even when you switch off all the stupid black level correction and noise reduction filters. Almost all options for image filtering are switched off on my own TV, but that doesn't mean that the processing engine is making no difference.

I know for sure that the equivalent Samsung model for my own TV comes nowhere near in image quality no matter how you set them up and as I said mine has a much better UI and connectivity. As for the equivalent to the W3000 series I can't tell you... The M87 series Samsung that came out at about the same time as the W3000 series can't be the same panels (they have wildly different specs) and they have their own problems. Also (to avoid confusion) you don't need to update the FW on the W3000 if you buy new, they are already updated.

No I wouldn't buy the Tosh one if money wasn't an obstacle but you never know if nicorulez sees them both he might not be convinced by the benefits and want to save the money for something else.

Toss3 04-25-08 10:34 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by npras42
The Samsungs do use the same panels but they are often not as good. The image processing (the Bravia Engine for Sony) makes a huge difference to image quality even when you switch off all the stupid black level correction and noise reduction filters. Almost all options for image filtering are switched off on my own TV, but that doesn't mean that the processing engine is making no difference.

I know that Sony TVs have been good, but that hasn't really been the case as of late. While Samsung has been getting top scores, Sony has been letting people down with bad image quality and other problems. I like the fact that Sony uses the actual contrast ratio in their specs instead of the dynamic one, as most people don't use the dynamic setting.

Quote:

I know for sure that the equivalent Samsung model for my own TV comes nowhere near in image quality no matter how you set them up and as I said mine has a much better UI and connectivity. As for the equivalent to the W3000 series I can't tell you... The M87 series Samsung that came out at about the same time as the W3000 series can't be the same panels (they have wildly different specs) and they have their own problems. Also (to avoid confusion) you don't need to update the FW on the W3000 if you buy new, they are already updated.
I think that sony has just reduced the brightness of the panels in order to achieve better blacks, while samsung has done the opposite to get higher contrast ratio(which is good for marketing). I don't think that the TVs have to have the exact same specs because they use the same panels, because things like back-lighting and all that can be adjusted separately.

Quote:

No I wouldn't buy the Tosh one if money wasn't an obstacle but you never know if nicorulez sees them both he might not be convinced by the benefits and want to save the money for something else.
Well the Toshiba's aren't that much cheaper and don't perform too well compared to other brands. Toshiba and LG are for those on a tight budget(like me :D, but this TV is actually much better than you'd think, but it has taken a long time to get it to look good).

The new toshibas also look promising, but until I can read a review or see it by myself, I can't recommend it. Pioneer are also coming out with the new 9 series of plasmas soon, and going by history, they're going to be the cream of the crop as always.

One thing I might add is that plasmas look pretty horrible in brightly lit areas, whereas LCDs can be adjusted to "fit" the environment better, so if you do decide on getting a plasma you should also consider getting some very dark drapes for your windows. :)

npras42 04-25-08 11:05 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
As far as I've heard though Sammies have had their own problems and I wouldn't recommend them. All of their top models for the past year have experienced a very noticeable 24Hz flicker which is very well reported on AVForums as well as other issues regarding uniformity and backlight bleed etc. I don't know what the reviews have said as I haven't gone looking.

The Sony screens have had their own problems regarding uniformity but have been easy to return and change and have even been fixed with FW updates vi USB, which I have not heard is the case for the Sammies.


If thats true what you say about light conditions isn't he better off with a projection system like the SXRD? I don't know a lot about them but have heard they are mostly superior in every way as long as the conditions are right. Goes with the money is no obstacle thing as well.

Toss3 04-25-08 11:33 AM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by npras42
If thats true what you say about light conditions isn't he better off with a projection system like the SXRD? I don't know a lot about them but have heard they are mostly superior in every way as long as the conditions are right. Goes with the money is no obstacle thing as well.

I believe I read somewhere that Sony isn't producing rear projection TVs any longer, but compared to today's TVs they wouldn't really stand a chance.

But yes plasmas are very sensitive to light, the Kuros more so than the Panasonic counterparts. The environment lighting actually plays a major part when deciding on which TV to get, as you want a Plasma for a dark room and an LCD for a brighter environment. You don't see the benefits of the almost pure blacks of the best plasmas unless the room is very dark. That's why most people, like me, use different settings for the TV for different times of the day, in order to achieve the best picture clarity and quality, but plasmas just don't get bright enough for midday viewing(at least not when compared to an LCD), which is why most people buy LCDs because they look a lot better in the bright light of the stores, but when viewed in a dark room the plasma blows away the lcd(which is why I like stores with a dark viewing room where you can see how different TVs compare to each other under different lighting conditions). Whew that was a long sentence. :)

nicorulez 04-26-08 05:01 PM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
Toss3, you are very informative and I know that the Kuros (?) are incredible. However, my viewing area is fairly well lit even with shudders. I watch some movies, HDTV on cable or satellite and video games on the PS3. I know plasma's have better black levels, but I am still concerned about burn in. Even with the millimeter of picture shift that I heard Plasma's are doing, it is disconcerting that and extended gaming session of GT5 prologue could potentially burn in a 8000 dollar set. I like the Sony and Samsung. I have heard that the 52 inch XBR5 is very good. Is that true? Moreover, I have heard that OLED will make both plasma and LCD obsolete in the future. The only model available is the 11 inch Sony, which looks amazing but is not really functional. Thank you all for your insight. Keep it coming.

Lyme 04-26-08 07:36 PM

Re: What is the best 52 inch or larger LCD?
 
If your tv watching habits are quite heavy, and you want your tv to last a while. You should try to avoid plasma sets. The issue is that both the colour and the light are generated per pixel. Unfortunately in this design, the phosphors wear out in time (less than 30,000 hours). Once the phosphor wears out, you toss the set. In addition because the light is produced at the pixel and suffers from the same problem. Your set is brightest the first time you turn it on, and there will be a constant degrade afterwards.

While LCD and rear-projection sets have issues of their own, at least you can replace the back light when it goes.


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