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-   -   Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300! (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1223)

Uttar 08-28-02 09:46 AM

Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!
 
Hello everyone,

I've seen WAY too many people saying "Well, who'd want to pay for the NV30 since it's obviously gonna cost 100 bucks more than the R300 right now and..."

I think someone is forgetting some things here:
1. nVidia is still using a 128 bit bus.
2. 0.13 yields at TSMC will most likely be at around 25% when the NV30 goes in real production. AND, considering the same yields, it isn't more costly at all to do 120 million transistors than 107 million transistors - it's likely even less costly.

So, in my opinion, using a 128 bit bus will most likely compensate for low yields. And if nVidia gets lucky, and gets about 30% yields at TSMC when in real production, they could really begin to have a margin at $399.


Uttar

volt 08-28-02 10:14 AM

Still stores will sell it for $450+ since it's going to be a hottie. Just like the Ti4600 at newegg haha

DadGT 08-28-02 10:20 AM

Re: Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Uttar

1. nVidia is still using a 128 bit bus.


Uttar

The NV30 is a still unannounced part. How do you know that it will be 128 bit bus? Are you basing it on the Daivd Kirk comment that 256bit is "overkill, at the moment." nVidia moves fast, that moment may have already passed.

I would not be surprised at all to see the NV30 with 256bit memory.

As for NV30 cost, 0.13 um process = more chips on the same size platter = lower cost per chip. Assuming of course the process has comparable yield.

DIMA 08-28-02 10:49 AM

Re: Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!
 
Quote:

1. nVidia is still using a 128 bit bus.
Nvidia are using 256 bit bus, not 128.

jbirney 08-28-02 11:13 AM

Quote:

Nvidia are using 256 bit bus, not 128.
can you please point me to the nV Press Release that shows this? Oh thats right it does not exsit ;)

Anyways dont forget nV30 will be using high speed DDR2 which is still very costly at the moment. Also the yield point is really a har one. How good are the yeilds on the R9700? If they are decent then it may prove to be cheaper to make. The only advantage cost wise is volume of scale of the .13u process. The better the yeild the lower the cost. nV is going to lose money if they end up throwing 70% of the silicon away. Finally packaging can add cost. I have no idea how NV30 will be packaged. Too many unkowns for now...

Uttar 08-28-02 11:34 AM

Re: Re: Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DadGT

The NV30 is a still unannounced part. How do you know that it will be 128 bit bus? Are you basing it on the Daivd Kirk comment that 256bit is "overkill, at the moment." nVidia moves fast, that moment may have already passed.

I would not be surprised at all to see the NV30 with 256bit memory.

My post was a reply to people using rumors to predict the NV30 will cost more than the R300.

And according to those same rumors, it'll use a 128 bit bus.

So, what i'm tyring to say is that according to the currently available information, it is not as likely as people believe that the NV30 will cost more than $400.


Uttar

nutball 08-28-02 11:52 AM

I've said this before, but that's the beauty of cut-and-paste:

If NV30 spanks R300s butt, it will cost more than R300 (probably). If it doesn't, it won't (otherwise it won't sell, will it).

Simple market forces will dictate that.

Lamentation 08-28-02 01:39 PM

If nv30 doesn't spank it, but is only the same, and cost about the same, I don't see why it wouldn't sell.

sancheuz 08-28-02 02:22 PM

When Nv30 comes out, it will cost 400 at retail stores. Only stupid people go to retail stores(no offense). Ebay, 350... :-) smart people shop well..........OHh chocoalate doughnut, uhhhmmmmmm. Oh sorry. It dont matter how much nv30 cost, it will be flying off the shelfs i guarantee it.

Nv40 08-28-02 03:17 PM

well i have no problems with the Price
Nvidia choose for the Nv30 ,if it goes over $400
;IF the performance of the card Smokes Radeon9700 like the Geforce4 to RADeon2 ..:)

The Thing is the Geforce4 already handle ALL avaible GAmes at high quality /max setting in 1600x1200 ,AA+AF 2x.. i play Ghost recon
/medal of honor/Jedignight2 at 1600x1200 with aniso from 2x to 8x(AA off).. and i only have
an atlonXp 1900+... :)

and even Geforce4 is fast enough to play UnrealT2003 at 1600x res -high settings
with a fast machine ,so until Doom3 i see no reason to pay $400 dollars for a video card
unless you are struggling with a low video card like Radeon2 or GeforceMx ...

You pay for what you get , and if you cant afford
$400 now ,go for the middle performace solution Nv28 or wait 6 months a get NV30 a lot more cheaper ..;)

ZenOps 08-29-02 01:59 AM

Anything less than 50 percent yield is nothing to be proud of, it would be shameful for CPU makers Intel or AMD to release a chip with that low a yield.

If ATi is getting around 90 to 95 percent yield on a very mature .15, Nvidia would have to get at least 75 percent on the .13 to get the same number of chips per wafer (It is after all only 2 microns) At the end of the day, it comes down to how many wafers you end up throwing in the garbage.

With a .15 process which is mass manufacturable, could easily get 30 times more chips than .13 when demand kicks in. (Not sure of the real numbers, but 30 percent .15 manufacturing from TSMC would be reasonable, <1 percent for .13 looks positively anemic) Mass production = less expensive, always has.

One NV30 on the shelf to 30 Radeon 9700's... As I mentioned somewhere else, even though *a lot* of Radeon 9700pros were made in the first run, they have already sold out.

DDR2 is *very* expensive and rare, and from what I have heard the NV30 requires it.

There is no doubt in my mind the NV30, if released as specified now, will easily cost $100 more than the Radeon 9700pro.

SavagePaladin 08-29-02 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZenOps
Anything less than 50 percent yield is nothing to be proud of, it would be shameful for CPU makers Intel or AMD to release a chip with that low a yield.

If ATi is getting around 90 to 95 percent yield on a very mature .15, Nvidia would have to get at least 75 percent on the .13 to get the same number of chips per wafer (It is after all only 2 microns) At the end of the day, it comes down to how many wafers you end up throwing in the garbage.

With a .15 process which is mass manufacturable, could easily get 30 times more chips than .13 when demand kicks in. (Not sure of the real numbers, but 30 percent .15 manufacturing from TSMC would be reasonable, <1 percent for .13 looks positively anemic) Mass production = less expensive, always has.

One NV30 on the shelf to 30 Radeon 9700's... As I mentioned somewhere else, even though *a lot* of Radeon 9700pros were made in the first run, they have already sold out.

DDR2 is *very* expensive and rare, and from what I have heard the NV30 requires it.

There is no doubt in my mind the NV30, if released as specified now, will easily cost $100 more than the Radeon 9700pro.

You're forgetting that at the speeds required for a high end vidcard, even the Radeon 9700 is low yield, especially with so many transistors on it.
So can the 'if'...they aren't.

Also, hard as it is for us to believe, high end vidcards aren't very high demand. While this is undoubtedly due to the prices, you can't beat the competition and worry about prices too much.


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