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-   -   Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama! (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=141524)

desperadus 11-19-09 07:29 AM

Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
I just wasted yet another day of my life (and there aren't that many left) because another SILLY ASS software manufacturer just can't stop himself from pushing FAULTY upgrades onto its customers.

Yes NVIDEA, I am talking about YOU!

1) You do *not* bypass a distro's package manager:
Nvidea's tools have the notorious habit on e.g. SuSE (but the same also goes for other distros)
to install whatever they want on the box, w/o updating the local repositories afterwards.
The result on SuSE is that YaST has no clue about the NVidea graphic driver components installed
and thus *any* kernel upgrade promptly breaks the graphic's subsystem and you end up on the text
console upon next login - w/o being able to launch X11 other than via kernel option "x11failsafe".
In the year 2009 of the 3rd millennium, this is just plain stupid software design!

2) A new upgrade shouldn't break functionality that used to work just fine before:
I am running SuSE 11.2 on a Thinkpad W700DS, a unit with two LCD Screens.
Because the 2nd screen needs to be rotated by 90 degrees and NVidea's much hailed "Twinview" is just
to STUPID to handle that, I have to rely on Xinerama for that.
Now in the old NVidea driver version 185.x this used to work just fine, outright excellent after
I had wasted about a week hunting down some secret options no where mentioned to be able to run
the 2nd display in other than just VESA mode.
But the new 190.42 driver version breaks Xinerama and now my 2nd screen is just black and stays that way!
Nothing has changed in my Xorg file, but I'm a day older and so freakingly ticked off at this, that I would
throw the whole damn system against the wall if not for its $4000 price tag!

3) You do not force the user to allways download "the most recent version":
Not even Microsoft is that ruthless that their install programs force you to allway go online and download the
latest (crap) version of the application or driver. They give you the option outright to re-install the existing
version. But no, NVidea's install menu goes online by default and promptly downloads stuff that BREAKS the user's X11 configuration.

PS: Yes I know I did a lot of venting here. But the only reason I even got into this mess was because I upgraded my kernel.
All else worked just fine again in under 60 seconds. Sound, WiFi, compilers, ...
But no, NVidea had to upgrade itself during the re-install and now I can spend the rest of the week hunting down the flaw in the system.
I have to work for a living NVidea, and they don't pay me to fix my laptop :-(

AaronP 11-19-09 10:56 AM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
For #1, most distributions, including SuSE, have packages you can use to install the driver.

#2: Please see the forum sticky posts about how to generate a bug report.

#3: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the driver selection menu at nvidia.com? If you're looking for older drivers, you could try the the archive of official releases or the FTP server for all releases, official and unofficial.

leigh123linux 11-19-09 01:56 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by desperadus (Post 2126588)
I just wasted yet another day of my life (and there aren't that many left) because another SILLY ASS software manufacturer just can't stop himself from pushing FAULTY upgrades onto its customers.

Yes NVIDEA, I am talking about YOU!

1) You do *not* bypass a distro's package manager:
Nvidea's tools have the notorious habit on e.g. SuSE (but the same also goes for other distros)
to install whatever they want on the box, w/o updating the local repositories afterwards.
The result on SuSE is that YaST has no clue about the NVidea graphic driver components installed
and thus *any* kernel upgrade promptly breaks the graphic's subsystem and you end up on the text
console upon next login - w/o being able to launch X11 other than via kernel option "x11failsafe".
In the year 2009 of the 3rd millennium, this is just plain stupid software design!

2) A new upgrade shouldn't break functionality that used to work just fine before:
I am running SuSE 11.2 on a Thinkpad W700DS, a unit with two LCD Screens.
Because the 2nd screen needs to be rotated by 90 degrees and NVidea's much hailed "Twinview" is just
to STUPID to handle that, I have to rely on Xinerama for that.
Now in the old NVidea driver version 185.x this used to work just fine, outright excellent after
I had wasted about a week hunting down some secret options no where mentioned to be able to run
the 2nd display in other than just VESA mode.
But the new 190.42 driver version breaks Xinerama and now my 2nd screen is just black and stays that way!
Nothing has changed in my Xorg file, but I'm a day older and so freakingly ticked off at this, that I would
throw the whole damn system against the wall if not for its $4000 price tag!

3) You do not force the user to allways download "the most recent version":
Not even Microsoft is that ruthless that their install programs force you to allway go online and download the
latest (crap) version of the application or driver. They give you the option outright to re-install the existing
version. But no, NVidea's install menu goes online by default and promptly downloads stuff that BREAKS the user's X11 configuration.

PS: Yes I know I did a lot of venting here. But the only reason I even got into this mess was because I upgraded my kernel.
All else worked just fine again in under 60 seconds. Sound, WiFi, compilers, ...
But no, NVidea had to upgrade itself during the re-install and now I can spend the rest of the week hunting down the flaw in the system.
I have to work for a living NVidea, and they don't pay me to fix my laptop :-(



1. WTF does that have to do with nvidia, it is your problem that you choose to use a crap distro with a even crappier package manager (YAST sucks).

2. Xorg xinerama has never worked with the nvidia driver.

3. It isn't Nvidia fault if distros evolve to quickly ! ( kernel and xorg changes force this )


Quote:

But no, NVidea's install menu goes online by default and promptly downloads stuff that BREAKS the user's X11 configuration.
No it doesn't, the idiot in the chair ( i.e you ) has to click OK to confirm that it is OK first.

leigh123linux 11-19-09 01:58 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronP (Post 2126760)
For #1, most distributions, including SuSE, have packages you can use to install the driver.

#2: Please see the forum sticky posts about how to generate a bug report.

#3: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the driver selection menu at nvidia.com? If you're looking for older drivers, you could try the the archive of official releases or the FTP server for all releases, official and unofficial.

He means the nvidia installer menu , it tries to download a precompiled nvidia.ko from nvidia.com

thefirstm 11-19-09 02:05 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronP (Post 2126760)
For #1, most distributions, including SuSE, have packages you can use to install the driver.

#2: Please see the forum sticky posts about how to generate a bug report.

#3: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the driver selection menu at nvidia.com? If you're looking for older drivers, you could try the the archive of official releases or the FTP server for all releases, official and unofficial.

Don't feed the trolls!

woelfel 11-19-09 02:33 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Normally I wouldn't even consider replying to such a rude post. But there is one point he's right about: We've been asking for XRandR, that would allow to rotate only one screen, for a long long long time, and Nvidia doesn't seem to care. So why should anyone still bother filing a bug report about that?

desperadus 11-19-09 05:33 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronP (Post 2126760)
For #1, most distributions, including SuSE, have packages you can use to install the driver.

NVidea's own update/install routine (-> nvidea-installer) sniffs out any such package and starts throwing a fit if it finds it:
"...has detected that the original installation has been altered..."
It then insists on removing any and all traces of such YaST installed drivers (so we can read from the YaST package database, but not write into it?!) before continuing installing itself.
As I was banished to the text console by NVidea after my kernel upgrade and the ncurses interface of YaST didn't work at the time, I was foolish enough to just run "nvidea-installer" from the text console. Hoping it would simply recompile the existing driver for the new kernel. How foolish of me indeed :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronP (Post 2126760)
#2: Please see the forum sticky posts about how to generate a bug report.

Which part of "I don't have time for this" didn't you understand?!
Last time it took one of the NVidea tech folks a whole week before he finally came up with the two - well hidden(!) - secret options needed to get my 2nd display out of VESA mode.

This time around I just switch to Nouveau Open Source drivers and make a note for myself: NEVER, EVER BUY NVIDEA AGAIN!
I lost a whole day over this nonsense. Not going to loose the rest of the week, too :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronP (Post 2126760)
#3: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the driver selection menu at nvidia.com?

I am talking about NVIDIA-INSTALLER!!!
NVidia's own, messed up software tools which come with the driver.

I already tried re-installing the old driver, but that won't compile with the new kernel no more.
Even so I only went from the 11.1 to the 11.2 kernel:
2.6.27.37-0.1 -> 2.6.31.5-0.1

But the old driver insists on locating header files which no longer exist in the x.31.x sources.
Not even VMware is that picky!!

desperadus 11-19-09 05:42 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by woelfel (Post 2126948)
Normally I wouldn't even consider replying to such a rude post. But there is one point he's right about: We've been asking for XRandR, that would allow to rotate only one screen, for a long long long time, and Nvidia doesn't seem to care. So why should anyone still bother filing a bug report about that?

Normally I wouldn't even bother posting in such a forum - if not to WARN PEOPLE from wasting their money and time (and mine is obviously a lot more valuable than yours) on a product that is so outrageously faulty.

What the heck do you think people in "real life", folks who do not get paid for testing faulty HW & SW and can not rely on a huge inheritance or wealthy parents to get them through the day, do most of the day?!

THEY HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING!

For someone who has to get up at 6am in the morning to stay up until 3am to fix what used to work just fine for month, just because he went through a driver update is NOT ACCEPTABLE in my world.

That might be a cause for great celebration amongst the script kiddies of this world, having burned the midnight oil, hunting down every single hidden option for that driver.
Something to brag about in countless online forums.

For people like me its just a cause of frustration, a day full of headaches and a boss who thinks I was out partying all night :-(

NVidia is rude for pushing faulty crap SW like this onto their customers.
People allways complain about Microsoft.
But no update of a graphic's driver on Windows has *ever* broken a working config of mine.

But hey, up until now I also used to be on ATI cards, both for Windoze and Linux.
And as far as I am concerned, that's exactly where I'm headed back to!

desperadus 11-19-09 05:47 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh123@linux (Post 2126924)
He means the nvidia installer menu , it tries to download a precompiled nvidia.ko from nvidia.com

That *allways* fails. I wonder why that script even tries to >download a precompiled nvidia.ko<, if it allways ends up having to compile it anyway.
And to get an updated CC + the latest Kernel Sources, from a text based console, w/o YaST curses working was also no "walk in the park".

All I wanted was for the installed drivers to be installed again.
A simple "apt-get install --reinstall" or a YaST -> Update -> Keep Version

But no, nvidia is a whole different ball of wax :-(

And what's up with that Twinview vs. Xinerama war anyway?
Xinerama works, so who the heck needs Twinview?
A proprietary standard that shouldn't be introduced into a GPL product like Linux anyway.

AaronP 11-19-09 05:48 PM

Re: Really, really ticked of about this. NVidea breaks Xinerama!
 
Looks like thefirstm had it right. Closing this thread. Desperadus, if you'd like help with your Xinerama problem, please post a new thread including a bug report log.


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