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-   -   Digit-Life: More on the Dishonest Treatment of the 3DMark 2003 (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14593)

DSC 07-09-03 10:28 AM

Digit-Life: More on the Dishonest Treatment of the 3DMark 2003
 
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/gffx-13.html

Found some interesting tidbits.

Quote:

But ATI is not only keeping pace in using such cheats but also lies by promising to remove them. Moreover, the RADEON 9800 stands farther from the reference than the FX5900 in the Game4.
Hmmmm...... :eek:

Sazar 07-09-03 10:42 AM

I am trying to figure out how this is the case...

here is the comparative animated ati 9800pro gif...

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/gf...ro-g4-1500.gif

here is the same thing with teh 5900ultra..

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/gf...00-g4-1500.gif

looking @ the rest of the information...

this is just gt4 mind you... but I am trying to figure out how the conclusion was reached... (and yes ok.. you did leave out the nvidia reference... but I am assuming that was for a reason)... I can't for the life of me see the change...

anyways... considering the lad who did the article basically calls everyone a liar :D I'ma gonna wait for dave and co on b3d to lay down the smacketh on this one...

Hanners 07-09-03 11:07 AM

I thought it had been proven that ATi had removed all their rewritten shaders from 3DMark 2003 (the scores certainly suggest that they have).

Morrow 07-09-03 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanners
I thought it had been proven that ATi had removed all their rewritten shaders from 3DMark 2003 (the scores certainly suggest that they have).
no, not all, just the two Futuremark had found previously...

SurfMonkey 07-09-03 11:21 AM

Nobody proved that ATI had removed any cheats. They've probably just hidden them better, the same as Nvidia seems to have done.

Both companies are cheating scum that don't deserve our hard won cash. I mean they're both selling products based on lies and artificially propped up benchmarks. It sucks.

Roll on Kyro V.

Hanners 07-09-03 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SurfMonkey
Nobody proved that ATI had removed any cheats. They've probably just hidden them better, the same as Nvidia seems to have done.
Unlike nVidia they gave their word though - I know somebodies word doesn't mean much in business but I'd just be surprised if ATi would even want to risk leaving the cheats in in any shape or form after making the statement they did.

I'm not totally convinced by this article on either the ATi or nVidia front - There just seems to be too many differences, even with AntiDetector running. :confused:

Hanners 07-09-03 12:10 PM

OK, well I think after a brief foray to Beyond3D we can forget the 'ATi is still cheating' idea right now. As for nVidia's results, well some (if not most) of them are probably incorrectly being labelled as cheats too. I really wish Digit Life would actually research into what they are doing before they do it. :rolleyes:

From Kristof at Beyond3D:

Quote:

While the ref rast is indeed "the reference", making direct per pixel comparisons with it can be quite tricky and even potentially incorrect. One issue :

RefRast will do all maths at 32bits IEEE... R9800 is 24bits... so there are bound to be differences. There are a lot of other small tidbits that can go wrong or cause differences... there are lots of other accuracy issues that can show, texture interpolators, iterators, filtering accuracy...

So its not a trivial step to compare with ref rast and claim cheating if there are some difference present. Judging if ATI and or NVIDIA are within the margin of error can really only be answered by comparing the hardware spec and the ref rast spec and only ATI can do that.

kmolazz 07-09-03 12:48 PM

and also, ATI cards get the same score with and without unwinder anti-cheat program. At least it shows there is no specific aplication optimization.

surfhurleydude 07-09-03 01:03 PM

I don't really care one way or another if either company cheats, but I wouldn't mind ATi being proven to cheat as much as nVidia just so all of the ATi fanboys here can go back to their caves.

5150 Joker 07-09-03 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfhurleydude
I don't really care one way or another if either company cheats, but I wouldn't mind ATi being proven to cheat as much as nVidia just so all of the ATi fanboys here can go back to their caves.

Looks like that isn't going to happen while nVidia just keeps getting caught with more cheats as time passes.

surfhurleydude 07-09-03 01:17 PM

Quote:

Looks like that isn't going to happen while nVidia just keeps getting caught with more cheats as time passes.
Apparently ATi *IS* getting caught for something now, even after saying they TOOK OUT EVERYTHING, however nVidia is just getting caught for doing what they've always been doing...

5150 Joker 07-09-03 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Apparently ATi *IS* getting caught for something now, even after saying they TOOK OUT EVERYTHING, however nVidia is just getting caught for doing what they've always been doing...

They did take out 3DMark03 optimizations. Dunno about 3DMark2001 but with nVidia it's more serious since its been confirmed they drop their AF quality in UT2003.


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