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-   -   We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152684)

MaXThReAT 07-05-10 04:07 PM

We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
Considering the undeniable change in PC games and in the interest of simply moving the platform forward we need a pressure sensitive keypad, bad! I'm not talking a full keyboard but something like the Saitak gamer pad or the Nostromo N52te with pressure sensitive keys. I've always used the N52 or my Wolf King keypad. Adding pressure sensitivity would mean press a little move a little press a lot and you sprint. I think it would be awesome, the best of both worlds, mouse aim with analog speed controls. Same with leaning, jumping, gas, breaks, maybe even game actions like in Heavy Rain. The only thing Ive ever remotely like about pads are their analog sticks. I also like looking around walking slowly and taking in the views in games like Singularity or Metro. With a well programmed PC game you get 3 speeds; slow walk, normal walk and sprint. Since the analog stick there has never been a need for a walk button on consoles so it's gone from most PC games now too. Why doesn't a company like Logitech, Belkin or Saitak make a pressure sensitive keypad? Nice little switch or button for digital/analog modes. It should work with any game already made for pads and wouldn't cost more than a gamepad. I dont think they realize how big of a hit it would be. Id buy one, heck Id buy two.

crainger 07-05-10 04:12 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
They are coming. I think Microsoft demoed one. You tap to delete a letter. Push hard to delete the whole word.

MaXThReAT 07-05-10 04:15 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crainger (Post 2283084)
They are coming. I think Microsoft demoed one. You tap to delete a letter. Push hard to delete the whole word.

I have seen a full keyboard they're making. I wonder how game friendly it will be, have they talked about gaming with it at all?

Mr. Hunt 07-05-10 04:43 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
No.

jolle 07-05-10 05:45 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
I dont really see the point either, never been much use in any game has it? (granted, racing games )
Sure, Splinter Cell had some analog walking dialing it on the scroll wheel, but I dont see the problem with the walk/run and added Sprint if need be?
Even in that case.

Would probably have to be a keyboard wide standard to get support in PC games too, if its just for the few breakout devices like Saitek pads, it prolly wont get supported.
Anyhow, I never really felt the need, I have reacted on how unnecessary it is in console games, even though it makes sense inputwise on a analog stick.
And keeping pressure on a key to keep it pressed down could get more iffy then pushing a analog stick to its max, would have to be very fine tuned.

MaXThReAT 07-05-10 07:58 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jolle (Post 2283113)
I dont really see the point either, never been much use in any game has it? (granted, racing games )
Sure, Splinter Cell had some analog walking dialing it on the scroll wheel, but I dont see the problem with the walk/run and added Sprint if need be?
Even in that case.

Would probably have to be a keyboard wide standard to get support in PC games too, if its just for the few breakout devices like Saitek pads, it prolly wont get supported.
Anyhow, I never really felt the need, I have reacted on how unnecessary it is in console games, even though it makes sense inputwise on a analog stick.
And keeping pressure on a key to keep it pressed down could get more iffy then pushing a analog stick to its max, would have to be very fine tuned.

Well that's what I'm talking about. A lot of games no longer support a button for walking, so if you use a keyboard your SOL. Stalker is the last I can think of that has a walk button. There are so many game that I can't walk in right now. The only way to walk slowly is to crouch or use an analog stick. The software would need to be robust as each key would be an axis, some pressure setting for light, heavy fingers and from what I read an see today it wouldn't be too hard. I mean with some games I use a combo of my TrackIR with a mouse emulation program that translates my head movement in to mouse movement and I have head tracking in every FPS every made. A PS keypad would work with any game that supports analog controllers and it would be just like any other add on pad. As for needing to keep pressure on it who doesn't hold their keys a little harder during intense moments. It would only add to the immersion.

Sazar 07-05-10 08:01 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
shift+W for slow forward movement. Or ctrl+W, or whatever combination you want :bleh:

MaXThReAT 07-05-10 08:07 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sazar (Post 2283171)
shift+W for slow forward movement. Or ctrl+W, or whatever combination you want :bleh:

Whatcu talkin' bout?

Viral 07-05-10 08:13 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
I agree that PC games do need a somewhat standardized specced device for analogue movement. I guess the problem is within creating the standard so that all games use it.

MaXThReAT 07-05-10 11:03 PM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
As far as I know the standard is already there, it's called DirectInput and XInput and every control uses one or the other. Older stuff uses DirectInput and newer stuff uses XInput API. Most newer games only use XInput now and that's also why a lot of rumble devices programmed in DirectInput no longer vibrate.

Quote:

DirectInput vs XInput
Microsoft has not made any major changes to DirectInput since DirectX 8, and introduced XInput later in DirectX 9: there remains some confusion about the current status and future of the two APIs. As of 2010[update] each has features the other doesn't, and neither had major updates with DirectX 10 (2006- ).

An Xbox 360 Controller with the default Microsoft driver with DirectInput has the following limitations compared to with XInput:

the left and right triggers will act as a single axis, not as independent analog axes
vibration effects will not operate
querying for headset devices will not operate
According to MSDN, "the combination of the left and right triggers in DirectInput is by design. Games have always assumed that DirectInput device axes are centered when there is no user interaction with the device. However, the Xbox 360 controller was designed to register minimum value, not center, when the triggers are not being held." MSDN proffered the "solution" of combining the triggers, setting one trigger to a positive direction and the other to a negative direction, so no user interaction is indicative to DirectInput of the "control" being at center.[4]

The above, however, ignores the fact that many DirectInput controllers, such as gamepads with dual analog sticks and racing-wheel controller sets, already map triggers and pedals independently. In addition, many DirectInput devices also have vibration effects. At least one driver, XBCD, gives the Xbox 360 controllers the vibration support, dead zones and (optionally) independent triggers through DirectInput. This suggests that Microsoft's Xbox 360 controller driver intentionally has weaker DirectInput support, rather than due to any differences between DirectInput and XInput APIs. On the other hand, Xbox 360 controller and XInput support only very basic control of vibration motors[5][6] in contrast with great palette of various effects supported by DirectInput.[7] The XBCD driver emulates support of these DirectInput vibration effects in the driver and translates them to simple commands for each motor in the controller. This approach makes reproduction of some DirectInput effects inaccurate.

The XInput API also as of 2010[update] has limits that DirectInput does not:

XInput supports only "next generation" controllers. This limits it basically to controllers for the Xbox 360 that also have Windows drivers. Legacy Windows controllers, joysticks and generalized force-feedback devices are not supported.
XInput supports a maximum of four controllers at a time. This is an Xbox limit, carried over to Windows. Although as of 2010[update] few PC games require more than four controllers at once, this seems[original research?] like an arbitrary restriction as DirectInput has no such limitation.
XInput does not support keyboards, mice, or mouse-type devices. While this mirrors Microsoft's recommendation not to use DirectInput with these devices[8], programmers can use DirectInput with these devices.
XInput supports maxima of 4 axes, 10 buttons, 2 triggers and 8-direction digital pad per controller, compared to DirectInput's support for 8 axes, 128 buttons, and full-range POV. (Incidentally, the number of axes, buttons and triggers XInput supports corresponds directly to the Xbox 360 controller.)
As of 2010[update] XInput is for Xbox 360 controllers, while DirectInput is for any controller.

t3hl33td4rg0n 07-06-10 12:59 AM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
I rarely use walking in games unless the difference between walking/running affects your aim - so I think this would be more cumbersome than anything. The last thing I need is my jittery ass hands on a coffee/smoke binge trying to press a key slightly less than normally while aiming.

I can only imagine what it would feel like trying to strafe diagonally - if the keys being pushed are too sensitive, you may find yourself having a harder time aiming because your running speed is changing too often.

I prefer regardless of how hard you mash on a key it doesn't matter.

Mr. Hunt 07-06-10 01:09 AM

Re: We Need a Pressure Sensitive Keypad Bad
 
I use walking never. If walking makes your aim better than while running, I just crouch and make it even better.


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