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-   -   Random Engine Questions (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35425)

Cheimison 08-24-04 01:52 AM

Random Engine Questions
I was wondering why some previously implemented features of different engines haven't become prevalent. For example:

1. Large scale maps. I think I first saw this in Delta Force, and while it exists in the Tribes series and Far Cry, and several of the war-themed games, it's still not commonplace in the single-player shooters. I know one thing that limits this is the BSP format a lot of games are still holding onto, but you'd think they'd just ditch BSP if it was that big of a hitch. Maybe I'm overestimating the practicality of programmers.
2. GeoModding. Once again, a problem in BSP-style engines, but what about the others? I think GeoModding would be perfect in games like Tribes, Far Cry and the Rainbow Six series. They'd add to the existent realism. Is there even a single modern game that uses geomodding?
3. Curved surfaces. This was the reason I ultimately played Q3 over Unreal Tournament, as banal as it may sound. I couldn't help noticing that everything in Unreal, while nicely textured and lighted, was still made out of damn squares. The ability to create curved surfaces improved the immersiveness of Q3 engine games a lot, and I think games need to continue in this tradition. I can't tell if Doom3 does it or not, but I don't think HL2 has it (from what I've seen in demos), nor do pretty much any of the new games. Far Cry and Tribes 2 do a decent curved/slope on terrain, but buildings are still blatantly polygonal. Curved surfaces would be awesome on models, too.
4. Bump mapping. Well, quite a few games use this now, but this crap has been around since Soldier of Fortune, if not before. Why did it dry up after that? It really helps textures look more realistic.
5. Realistic locational damage. Once again a feature of Soldier of Fortune that has become non-existent. I know SoF overdid it, but still, some realistic pooling blood, bullet entry and exit wounds etc. would be nice, especially in the tactical shooters.

majortom 08-24-04 07:33 AM

Re: Random Engine Questions
ill try to answer, but keep in mind that these are my opinions, and are not to be regarded as fact:
1. not all games needed large scale maps.
2. wtf is geomodding? are you talking about map deformity, ie red faction? i think in a large scale multiplayer game, it would have taken (and still does) take a lot of resources to do something like that with say bf1942.
3. when did q3 have curved surfaces. the only curved surfaces i remember in q3 were arches. i think ut2004 makes up for it with utilizing spaces (open areas/terrain/indoors), rather than relying on curves.
4. i agree. bump mapping would be cool. but all the new games coming out now should have it (d3, for one)
5. in a multiplayer game, this would take a lot of resources and is more or less unfeasible at the moment.

but i could be completely wrong and the programmers could be total lazy sob's.

Cheimison 08-24-04 09:26 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
GeoModding: Architecture deformation, such as in Red Faction.
Quake 3 had curved surfaces. The edes of jump pads a lot of times. A lot of original Q3 maps didn't use them because it was hard on resources for that era's cards, but my computer runs a map made entirely out of curved surfaces in the hundreds of frames per second.
And also, given that gore is client-side, I don't see why it would be that hard to do. It worked fine in SoF multiplayer.

Edge 08-24-04 09:41 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
Quake 3's surfaces weren't actually curves in-game, though. In the map editor you set up where a curve would be, and then the engine simply turns that into polygons. The same effect could be achieved in any rendering engine. The only difference is that Quake 3 allowed you to increase or decrease the number of polygons used on the curves in the game.

jAkUp 08-24-04 10:55 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
Geo-modding would be great... but unfortunately, that would have to be server side in multiplayer games.

I was actually surprised in Counter-Strike Source, it has realistic physics and most (besides ragdolls) are server side! Im suprised that they were able to cram this all into the pipe.

When quake3 was first released, curved surfaces was on of the major feats it was touting. I agree with you completely, games today STILL have too many damn boxes! I thought when quake3 was released the boxes would be gone, but no... we still have squares for everything! A few games still do curved surfaces though.

Mr. Hunt 08-25-04 04:39 AM

Re: Random Engine Questions
My only complain is first person shooters that have no secondary fire :(.

Edge 08-25-04 09:19 AM

Re: Random Engine Questions

Originally Posted by jAkUp
I was actually surprised in Counter-Strike Source, it has realistic physics and most (besides ragdolls) are server side! Im suprised that they were able to cram this all into the pipe.

Hmm, well I guess they'd need to be for everything to be consistant, wouldn't make much sense if you hid behind a box that looked like it was right in front of you on your screen but on someone elses it looked like you were standing out in the open. Any word on how much bandwidth that uses up? I'm just wondering if my 56k will actually be playable in this game...

jAkUp 08-25-04 09:52 AM

Re: Random Engine Questions
dunno how much bandwith it uses, but i get great pings on my 56k.... I get better ping times than ut2004

Mike1357 08-25-04 02:14 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
My opinion about GeoMod Technology: Why hell yea, it was great in red faction! I still have that game installed on my computer right now. The geomod in both single player and multiplayer was real fun to play with, and in the single player, sometimes it was even essential to use to get through certain parts. I like how they tied it in. (IMO Red faction 2 was still a good game, but wasnt as fun as red faction 1 since the geomod wasnt used quite nearly enough at all.)
However, i dont think geomod would be good in all games. in some, it just wouldn't fit right with the gameplay. i.e: alot of games involve you looking for a key to a door or doing a puzzle to get past. on red faction, you just blow the wall up. i DO wish they would implement it in a "modern" game though.

Mr. Hunt: I agree. I love games with secondary fire Example: Unreal Tournament/2004. it made me sad in doom 3 when i right clicked and the guy jumped. if theres no secondary fire, at least make right click usefull, like on call of duty... it brings up the iron sights, which are really cool. on doom3 i bound right click to reload :)

bumpmapping: yea it has been around a while, and some games subtlely use it, but doom 3 has really opened everyones eyes on how much of a difference it can make on textures with little impact on even very old cards (Like my Geforce3) it should be implemented on most games, but it shouldnt be substituted for good textures (cough doom 3 ;)) hehe

large scale maps: well sometimes it is fun to have a huge map to explore, but it can be disasterous sometimes. for example on call of duty: there is a really big open map, and if the mode is set on deathmatch, then its almost impossible to find anyone unless there are more than 25 people. even then, it just turns into a sniper map. if you like sniping, then have at it, but i prefer the smaller maps, with some kind of objective (Like headquarters mode, its cool). another example is Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory or even RTCW, Enemy TErritory has some pretty good sized maps, and the competition matches are 6vs6. so only 12 people are in this big map. however, there are objectives to keep everyone on task, not just wandering around trying to find each other.

realistic damage: LMAO If anyone has played Postal 2 you know what i'm talking about. when you shoot someone when they are on a hill, the blood runs down the hill! oh man, that is such a funny game. I think i'll go play it for a good laugh.

ok im done talking now. go back to what you were doing.

Mr. Hunt 08-25-04 02:25 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
Yeah, in doom 3 I ended up changing the controls so right click was zooming :\.... I rarely used it but it was better than me accidently jumping around constantly lol.

I love how painkiller did it... all guns had a secondary fire and some of them even had a third type of way to use them.

Fatman 08-25-04 02:59 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
COOP! That feature should be in every multiplayer game. The rest is just eye candy.

Cheimison 08-25-04 09:18 PM

Re: Random Engine Questions
You'll have to excuse me for not being very concerned about bandwidth consumption - I run a 2mbit cable modem. I can hardly ever connect to someone running as fast as I am, because even the T1s usually cap their servers' bandwidth.

Secondary fire I can do without as long as there are lots of guns. I loved Rooster Mod for Rogue Spear - I think all FPS games should have hundreds of guns, and the physics to make a difference. But that's just me.

COOP is my favourite form of gameplay. It allows players of all skill levels to get on reasonably in multiplayer, whereas competitive play always results in someone constantly getting owned.

I use right click to walk forward.

GeoModding would be the greatest in war-style games and stuff like tribes. Damn it, mortar shells should make craters! It's so retarded when a mortar lands and makes a black spot, I want to punch somebody for that retarded invention.

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