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-   -   6800 GO driver programming (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64328)

mark087 02-03-06 01:00 PM

6800 GO driver programming
 
I'm an OS developer and graphics enthusiast looking to implement a low level driver in assembler for 6800 GO.

I'm just having great difficulty finding detailed specifications for my card, as the main nVidia sites only contain technical briefs.

I need information on memory ranges, registers, 2D/3D, CG and programming.

Mark

d4rk74m4 02-03-06 03:13 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
All I can say on this is, good luck. These days, neither nvidia or ATI seem willing to provide the information required to implement a full-featured driver.

You should be able to glean enough information from the Xorg nvidia driver to implement 2D support.

As for CG, this is an API. I'm fairly certain that nvidia wouldn't have dedicated CG hardware, and that the CG would most likely be translated to the hardware's vertex and fragment shader assembly code. I don't believe there's ANY information floating around about it though.

mark087 02-03-06 05:45 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
I'd like to hear nvidia corporations angle on this.
Why are complete specification documents not online?

Every other electronics provider I can think of does so.

d4rk74m4 02-03-06 10:07 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
Well, I don't speak for nvidia.. But there are many reasons I've heard as to why hardware manufacturers don't release specs. These include things like: they licence so-called "intellectual property" from other companies and aren't allowed to share it. Releasing specs will give away "trade secrets".. things like that..

I have a few arguments myself to counter these, but it's all been said before so I won't bother..

Thunderbird 02-04-06 06:33 AM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
Look in the xfree86/xorg nv driver source, check the haiku nvidia 2d/3d driver made by rudolf cornelissen and there are other sources like that.

mark087 02-05-06 10:03 AM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
It is unacceptable to me, as a programmer to have to look through open source code. Such code often lacks essential definitions of registers and alternate permutations of states.

Specification documents are cryptic enough without having to rely on buggy open source drivers to guess at what was actually originaly intended.

Thunderbird 02-05-06 10:52 AM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
You might not be happy about this but there's nothing you can do about it. Ati nor Nvidia give out technical specifications these days. The only companies who sometimes give out specs are companies like via/sis/xgi.

sbergman27 02-05-06 02:56 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
Right now, the combination of NVidia and ATI hold almost complete control over the 3D market. Both companies believe that they have the luxury of arrogance, and the luxury of being cavalier in their treatment of their customers. Old story.

Unlike Operating Systems, however, when the time is right, it is not so hard to switch video cards.

NVidia knows that.

Having been the ones who killed the 3DFX competition, NVidia knows that very well, indeed.

Keeping the specs secret is part of a vain attempt to avoid the day of reckoning

NVidia will release their specs. It will be in a few years. But they will. In fact, the driver code will go open-source.

Of course, by then, NVidia will be considered more or less irrelevant, having been out-maneuvered by a more nimble competitor with a less cavalier attitude toward its customers.

I've often noted that Open-Source is where dying companies go to die.

This is not a negative statement against Open Source. Indeed, the phenomenon irks me a bit. The problem is that companies wait too long before making the move, and by that time there is no hope for them. So we see reports of Company X going open source, followed by reports that Company X is dead.

Just open your specs already, NVidia! Get a clue!

d4rk74m4 02-05-06 07:09 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mark087
It is unacceptable to me, as a programmer to have to look through open source code. Such code often lacks essential definitions of registers and alternate permutations of states.

Specification documents are cryptic enough without having to rely on buggy open source drivers to guess at what was actually originaly intended.

It's not like you have a choice. If it makes you feel any better, the majority (all?) of the Xorg nv driver was written by nvidia...

mark087 02-06-06 12:39 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
So where is nvidia to answer for themselves?
Surely they read this.

Why dont nvidia even respond to my emails?
Sorry, but something fishy is going on there.

Has anyone ever tried legal action to get specs?
This seems the only optioin now.

cellstije 02-06-06 01:29 PM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mark087
[...]
Has anyone ever tried legal action to get specs?
This seems the only optioin now.

Class action against NVidia/ATI for not releasing their specs?

Considering the following

- Being a monopoly-"duopoly"
(no other choices for user willing to buy a performant GPU, especially in the laptop market),

-Both applying the "same" policy about drivers
(cartello?)

and remembering what happened to MSoft in USA and EU 'cause their monopolistic behavior (and still going on)

... well it would not be a bad idea, but INAIL ....

c.
P.S.
Still hoping in xgi and open-source drivers ....

P.P.S.
I wander what will happen to the cards half-supported in the Nvidia-legacy drivers in 1 year time.... do we have to throw them away (with the laptop) and buy something new full of TC Fritz(s ) or stick with the nv driver performing like s**t?
We will see...

Thunderbird 02-07-06 02:20 AM

Re: 6800 GO driver programming
 
You really won't get any specifications this has been discussed dozens of times and there's also no chance for opensource drivers. You can complain about it but it won't help and please don't let this thread escalate into a flamewar...


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