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-   -   Radeon 9700 not all that? (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=953)

sancheuz 08-20-02 03:24 PM

Radeon 9700 not all that?
 
Well, we finally got benchmarks for the radeon 9700. However, even though it totally kills the Gf4 Ti 4600 in performance, and definitely even more in features(128 bit color ect.ect), I really feel that the nv30 will overpower it by alot. In some games, the r300 and gf4 come tied! What is that? It could be the games are not adapted for the technology in the 9700, or we might see a big boost when directx 9 comes out, maybe that will bring the 9700 hundred to it's performance capabilites. But in terms of going out and getting one, I think a wise person would wait for the nv30..Right? I mean, no game out there will use more power than a geforce3 from now to when the nv30 comes out, so there is really no hurry to rush out and get an r300. I think it's better to wait for the nv30. What do you think?

Humus 08-20-02 03:34 PM

A wise person would rather be someone who doesn't speculate to widely about products that are several months away and instead look at the market today and decides whether they need to upgrade and if so what product to get given the amount of money you're willing to spend.

Fotis 08-20-02 03:38 PM

Many of the games tested were cpu limited thus equal performance.See what happens when aniso and fssa is on,radeon 9700 pulls numbers like 200%-400% faster than GF4.
Try the UT2003 numbers at anands(Ut2003 not cpu limited)and you'll see the performance gap.
Noboby can know if nv30 will be faster than radeon 9700 because we just don't have the specs or a board to test it.Nv30 might be faster than radeon 9700 but don't expect nv30 to kill it.
It would be a good thing to wait and see what nv30 offers(first nv3dfx card). I just want nvidia to keep to their release dates(hopefully november) and not pull nv30 into 2003.

sancheuz 08-20-02 03:43 PM

I understand, and i dont deny it, the radeon 9700 is and will continue to be stinking awesome. But what i'm trying to say, is that i think it will be better, anybody with a geforce2 ultra or above as of now, should instead save their money, and wait for the nv30. It will obviously be a better card, I mean i could be wrong, but how can nvidia relese a card that will not defeat the r300. Nvdia will not allow that, and they cant go wrong with probable ddr2 an cinefx and so on.

Fotis 08-20-02 04:02 PM

Many things can go wrong,for example 128 bit bus.If you check beyond3d's article you'll see that radeon 9700 has alomost all the cinefx features like 65xxx vertex shader instructions.And 128bit color internal procesing.Don't think that any card can output that color in the monitor.They just can't handle it.
Waiting for nv30 to see what it's about isn't a bad idea but we can't say nv30 has 256 bit bus just because radeon 9700 has one!!Why can't nvidia fail once?Nothing last's forever.
Anyway my personal opinion-hope is that nv30 will be faster than radeon 9700 because competition is good for my pocket.

nin_fragile14 08-20-02 06:01 PM

When Voodoo 5 came up, there was promise of Rampage around the corner, all on paper and theoretical.

You have to upgrade sooner or later. The R300 looks like an amazing card to buy, regardless if NV30 will be out 5 months later. (And who really knows if it'll be THAT much better).

ChrisW 08-21-02 01:02 AM

Since we are currently on a six month cycle for graphics cards, it seems to me the 9700 should be the top dog until December. That's four months. That only leaves two months for the NV30 to be on top. If you are going to wait for the NV30, you might as well wait two more months to get the R350.

As far as the NV30 is concerned, it took ATI 18 months to make the 9700. I assume the NV30 has taken just as long. If nVidia didn't know what ATI was going to produce until just recently, they will not be able to change it's design.

Richthofen 08-21-02 06:27 AM

point is ATI still is not on a 6 month cycle.
Do not expect a R350 for the first quarter 2003.
It won't happen.
2nd quater will be the timeframe when the R350 arrives and keep in mind that the NV30 delay has nothing to do with NV35.
I think that once the NV30 is released, Nvidia is on a 4 month cycle until the NV35 like with the GF3TI and GF4TI series.

jbirney 08-21-02 07:30 AM

Quote:

point is ATI still is not on a 6 month cycle.
Nope, not yet, but they have commited to improving that. Normally I would take a wait and see approach. If we look back at ATIs past then I could almost bet that wont happen. But over the last 8 months ATI has been a lot better about keeping its word. Lets see if thats they continue keeping their word....

Quote:

I think that once the NV30 is released, Nvidia is on a 4 month cycle until the NV35 like with the GF3TI and GF4TI series.
That would be the absoulte worse case for NV customers, the board vendors. The will not have time to sell their stock pile of nV30 parts. One of the reasons we did not have the GF4 Ti4200 with the others is that these board vendors complained that they had a lot of stock of GF3 parts they needed to move. So nV held off a bit and gave them a chance to move old parts. A 6 month cycle does nothing to help us get better games. A 4 month cycle is even worse.


sancheuz,

you realize in CPU limited cases you can have a bank of NV30s and it still wont give you one more FPS faster scores. THE CPU just can not keep the cards busy enough so you get a nice flat line. You can beet that the NV30 will show the same results on CPU limited games. Also by your logic if nothing out today taxes the GF3, then no reason to get the NV30 at all...we have to wait until games tax the GF4 which probably is another 8 months away. According to some public info NV expected the NV30 to be 2.5 time faster than the GF4 with AA at 1280x1024 which is very close to what the R9700 is doing now. They two maybe a lot closer than you think.

sancheuz 08-21-02 08:28 AM

My "logic" is correct. There is NO NEED to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3. Once again, there is no need to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3. The geforce3 will run Ut2k3 just fine which is going to be the best game out there untill splinter cell and doom 3. When is doom 3 coming out? Next year first quarter. When is nv30 coming out? This year december, or next year January. It makes sense, that if you have a geforce 3 or above right now, you dont rush and get a radeon 9700, when in three months a superior card will arrive. John Carmack and everybody else that has used the previewed the nv30 under NDA from nvidia(anandtech, nvmax, beyond3d, nvnews, ect. ect.) has said that the nv30 will be faster than the 9700.

ErrorS 08-21-02 08:38 AM

yea but with the previews for NV30 they werent basing it off of a card they used.. they were basing it off of a bunch of BS nvidia gave to them. .nvidia said to them "NV30 will be fast" .. so the PReviewers wrote "NV30 will be fast"...

the review at sharkey's lists one of the cons for Radeon9700 as "May be too fast for todays games" .. what will that make NV30?

I do agree if you have a GF3 Ti500 and you're a normal person with a life that doesnt play video games 24/7 that you should be just fine until NV30/R350 ..but still.. if R9700 is "too fast" NV30 is going to be "too fast"

John Reynolds 08-21-02 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancheuz
My "logic" is correct. There is NO NEED to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3. Once again, there is no need to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3. The geforce3 will run Ut2k3 just fine which is going to be the best game out there untill splinter cell and doom 3.
I have a GF4 Ti4400 and I'm jonesing for this card, big-time. I would agree with your statement if you qualified it by saying that if you don't use AA and/or AF you don't need to upgrade. I don't know about you, but on my P4 2.4B rig, AA and AF bring my GF4 to its knees.

But let me guess: NV30 comes out in December and plays UT2003 within 5% of what the 9700 does and suddenly it'll be time to upgrade, eh?


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