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Old 05-27-03, 12:34 AM   #111
Behemoth
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Darkness Falls
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Man Rage3D sure is a popular site these days! Thought I would pop in for a couple of points CM style!

1) I have nothing to say about what our competition has done. You guys can decide and hopefully the truth which is in front of you wont be overlooked

2) Looks like Beyond3D has already done my work for me. I quote two items. First from our guy Chris Evenden " We render the scene exactly as intended by Futuremark, in full-precision floating point. Our shaders are mathematically and functionally identical to Futuremark's and there are no visual artifacts; we simply shuffle instructions to take advantage of our architecture."

That is a very important statement you need to understand. When every CATALYST comes out and you see performance boosts, what do you think you are getting? To put it bluntly it is optimizations which make the original code run more efficient.That is how we can continually improve performance. Usually it is applicable to all situations but this one in question was in particular to 3DM (as no other games use its engine).

The second comment I would like to relate that to is from Tim Sweeney, the lead developer for the UT games. (also found on Beyond3d)

".. any code optimization performed on a function that does not change the resulting value of the function for any argument, is uncontroversially considered a valid optimization. "

That guys is exactly what we did. We optimized the code without changing the end resutl.

3) I had a few meetings today and it was decided that we back out the 3DMark optimizations. I was not in favour of this as we are not cheating nor degrading image quality. We are giving ATI users the benefit of our research on the code. Anyways it was decided that we back out the optimizations but I promise you we will continue to work to find ways of getting the percentages back!

So there you have it. A little explanation goes a long way to understand this complex industry.

As anyone who knows me from the threads will tell you, I am a straight up guy, and if ATI was up to funny business I would not be associated with them any longer.

Now get back to some gaming on your RADEON's or "no drivers for you"

PS. Althought our guy Chris promised we would back out the optimizations from 3DMark in our next CATALYST, I will only permit that if it doesnt delay our postings. You have my word we will continue to post at the feverish rate we started last year, that left our competition in our dust!

Later everyone

CM
Quote:
Usually it is applicable to all situations but this one in question was in particular to 3DM
"Usually" means not always.
"this one in question was in particular to 3DM" means he is refering to 3DM only when he talks about all situations, he already hinted its situarational, was particular in 3DM, i can not understand his statements any better in any other way.
then
Quote:
".. any code optimization performed on a function that does not change the resulting value of the function for any argument, is uncontroversially considered a valid optimization. "

That guys is exactly what we did. We optimized the code without changing the end resutl.
right, any argument can mean any argument, but only in particular to 3DM , because he said this one in question was in particular to 3DM

Quote:
Our shaders are mathematically and functionally identical to Futuremark's and there are no visual artifacts
hey if they are the same, who expect there is any visual artifacts? futuremark suspected ati not using PS2 shaders not suspected ati's PS2 shaders have bugs! big difference.

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We optimized the code without changing the end resutl.
why didnt he just say "we optimized the shaders"?
i will tell you, because if they got caught later it doesnt work in all siturations, they could explain "we didnt say it works in all siturations, it just doesnt change the end result in particular to 3DM"

this guy is unbelievable, he certainly was not lying, but i understand him perfectly.
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