View Single Post
Old 05-27-03, 09:57 AM   #117
radeon 9800 pro
Behemoth's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Darkness Falls
Posts: 841

Originally posted by Grrrpoop
Is nVidia's "implementation" better in terms of speed? Undoubtedly
Does it output the same quality that FM intended? No way.

Originally posted by Grrrpoop
Your suspicions are completely unfounded as it has already been shown that ATI is resequencing the shader so it can be processed faster, whilst not actually changing it. The quality is exactly as FM intended. That is not pre-calculation. nVidia pre-calculated, re-wrote and degraded the shader quality. That's the difference.
having better ordering codes ati wouldnt want to use is totally unfounded.
the "shuffle instructions" codes dont work on places other than GT4 sky and water makes perfect sense to me, otherwise ati needs not purposely detect GT4 sky and water and alter/shuffle instructions in those particular cases, instead of simply use the better ordering PS2 codes in driver.
the equality of visual quality in GT4 doesnt neccessarily mean ati is using a general PS2 codes, which is what futuremark is trying to measure in GT4.

Originally posted by Grrrpoop
Also, the same optimisations could be used in games, admittedly that would require each game to be recognized by the drivers, but if the drivers intercepted the shader calls then I'm sure these same optimisations could enhance the gaming experience whilst nVidia would have to rewrite shaders and reduce Iq to apply their "optimisation" to real games.
one can use valid optimization to cheat. i have cheated an automatic program marking system by hard coding all pre-calculated solutions to all possible known inputs into my program, result was full mark! and its a cheat! furturemark is testing valid PS2 performance, not only valid outputs.

Originally posted by Grrrpoop
Or they don't want the negative PR nVidia is now facing.
Besides, ATI outlined exactly what they did, and said that if ppl didn't like it then fine, it's not in the next driver. That's not the same as "refusing to disprove" a cheat. They acknowledge that something they did could be percieved as a wrongdoing and rather than labour the point have backed down.
this "they dont want negative PR" is totally unfounded, if ati use the uber "shuffle instructions" codes in next driver, i dont think anyone would mind 8% more performance boost. The thing is the uber "shuffle instructions" codes would only work on GT4 sky and water, of coz imho.

Originally posted by Grrrpoop
By contrast nVidia have thrown accusations around and claim it's a conspiracy to discredit their products by FM.

Who has more credibility?
this is tough question, i dont have clear answer yet.

Last edited by Behemoth; 05-27-03 at 10:39 AM.
Behemoth is offline   Reply With Quote