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Old 11-12-07, 02:14 PM   #46
ATI_Dude
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Default Re: Blizz removes HW sound acceleration from WoW

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK

Originally Posted by ATI_Dude:
Don't be such a quibbler. Aureal licensed some of NASA's technology and used it to create Aureal 3D. NASA licensed their technology to many other vendors including theme parks.


No, they didn't. Again, nasa didn't invent HRTF.
1. Yes they did. Aureal acquired Crystal River Engineering which helped develop NASA's binaural space simulation technology. Aureal used some of this technology in their Aureal 3D algorithm.

2. I never claimed NASA "invented" HRTF. I mentioned NASA as an example of an organization which uses HRTF technology


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
No, because there was not much development cost for NASA. Again, they didn't invent HRTF.
Again I never claimed NASA "invented" HRTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
True, potentially, in come cases is very useful. However you don't often interact with things above you, it is usually things around you. This is why in visual media a panoramic view is preferred.
Interaction is not the only concern. Immersion and realism is another concern. Vertical 3D positioning adds another dimension to the game experience. For example an approaching helicopter or airplane actually sounds like it's located at a higher elevation it adds a new dimension. The same is true if you move around in a multistory builiding and you notice someone is lurking on the level above you by the sound of his or her footsteps. Current multispeaker implementations cannot reproduce vertical 3D positioning in games as convincing as headphones HRTF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Where?.
If you go back two posts I wrote:

I find your movie theater example is a little silly. There're other considerations than accurate sound reproduction when you run a movie theater. If all movie theaters were equipped with individual headphones instead of surround speaker set ups it would completely ruin the social aspect of watching a movie in a theater.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Regardless of my opinions though, the fact is that HRTF is not physically capable of reproducing audio as well as a multi-channel setup, as I have already explained.
Define "reproduce audio"? Current multi-speaker implementations (including the ones that use HRTF) don't offer the same accuracy of 3D positioning on both a horizontal and vertical plane as headphone HRTF. At best it enables the listener to correctly locate and perceive sound on the horizontal plane. This is ok for movies and music, but many people find it lacking in interactive entertainment such as computer games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
CMSS3D does not solve this problem, it just can't. The problem is in the driver (the part of the speaker that moves, not what runs on your computer.) A smaller driver just can't move air the same way a larger one can, and likewise it can't scale amplitude at nearly as wide of a range that a larger driver can.
Movement of air is irrelevant. The issue with close proximity positioning is related to the limitations of HRTF phase manipulation. But even this problem can be solved by enabling seperate HRTF filters for distant sounds and close proximity sounds. Sensaura developed a system called MacroFX which enables special HRTF filters for sound sources located within 1 meter of the listener. Creative now owns Sensaura's intellectual property and has implemented MacroFX in their X-Fi drivers. While not 100% perfect it still creates a very convincing illusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
No, that wouldn't do anything for two reasons. A game panning the screen cannot predict the exact direction that you will move your head, and remember that it isn't simply turning your head, you also are going to probably tilt it either up or down, depending on the person. Also, your head is constantly in motion, even when you aren't even actively thinking about the sound.
Then the same issues potentially apply to a multispeaker setup since your eyes are usually fixed on a specific position or object on the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Plus that would probably annoy people if the game panned each time there was a sound coming from behind you, like a cricket for example which wouldn't move anywhere while it is chirping.
Why would the game pan? You as a user can pan the camera and accurately pinpoint stationary sound sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
No, this is a fact. Headphones can't provide the same natural ambiance that is provided by hearing a sound inside of a room. This is a problem that sound engineers have to work with when mastering e.g. cd audio, because they know that people will often listen to it with headphones, but headphones can't reproduce the desired effect of having a soundstage like e.g. having a concert. They can try to compromise on this by adding hrtf effects, but it still isn't the same. TBH you are the first person I have ever seen who is trying to argue that tiny headphone drivers are every bit as versatile as full sized speaker drivers.
I don't know what you're getting at. You overinterpret and distort every statement I make. I am referrring specifically to 3D positional audio in computer games. I agree that current HRTF technology and headphones can't provide the same natural ambiance as sound played inside a room. This would require real time wavetracing, and even then it would probably never offer a 100% realistic sound reproduction. But this doesn't necessarily mean that multispeaker setups are any better, especially in interactive entertainment such as computer games. Sound travel in a given room is fixed and will never correspond completely with an in-game environment.
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