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Old 09-10-02, 03:10 AM   #103
Nv40's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: everywhere
Posts: 2,216

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Overall, I feel sorry for the typical consumer as they really do not know where a problem maybe. Could be game code, could be driver code, could be DX/GL code.

or maybe ineficiency , lack of experience or incompetent Ati drivers devs team ?

you are just saying ATI drivers and harware problems
is Nvidia fault!

here is what a game developers (Derek smart) think about ATi drivers...

for radeon 8500

for RADeon9700

i have always had Nvidia cards since Tnt2 ,and never got any single big problem with hardware or games in any DIRECT3d game/openGl game ,
Drivers were not perfect but they worked !!! all the time.
since win98/Winme/Nt/2000/windowsXp even people say very nice thing
about Nvidia linux drivers in games ......... see this ?

hard to believe but it is true.from my experience only minor issues with Nvidia drivers like Gamma in quake2 that was easily fixed downloading quake2Configs from tweak3d ,another was quake3 gamma in windows 2000 with my Tnt2/Geforce2 easily fixed with utilities like powersrtip . see ? oh another Tribes 1 (glidegame)
was very slow in my Tnt2 ultra ,in the first opengl patch released by dynamix (my biggest problem ever in an Nvidia card),but later Dynamix
fixed it (not nvidia who was not the standar) with a new patch ... see ?

even my friends experience with Geforce cards are no less than Good
too much coincidence ?

Today i have a Geforce4 and none problems with anygame or hardware .
there are more than one driver that works flawlessly ,lately
detonators 40.41beta gamma need to be fixed in some openGl games ,
the solution ? use anyolder detonator driver until Nvidia release
a final version ... see this ?
is that you always have choices with Nvidia drivers,you will never
be in a corner with a problem that has no quick solution .

even my friends had very few if none problems in their Geforce's.

i thought the drivers problems on the radeon1/2 was something
"normal" ,because sometimes there are bugs or incompatibilities
with some hardware or drivers from any company sooner or later will have bugs ,Right?

so i didnt Thought that radeon1/2 bugs and drivers problems were something to worry when my friend told me
he wasnt able to run some games in Windows2000 and that the
drivers were really painfull to install and not so good in his radeon in 3dapplications , no problem i told ,
look for the latest ATi drivers and everything will be ok .
now he have a Geforce3 and guess what? none problems in any game
and 3daplications like 3dmax .

i believed there was something really serious with ATi drivers
when i heard mr. JOHn CArmack interesting commnets
about RADeon 8500 drivers .......................................

February 11, 2002
My judgment was colored by the experience of bringing up Doom on the original
Radeon card a year earlier, which involved chasing a lot of driver bugs. Note
that ATI was very responsive, working closely with me on it, and we were able
to get everything resolved, but I still had no expectation that things would
work correctly the first time

Nvidia's OpenGL drivers are my "gold standard", and it has been quite a while since I have had to report a problem to them, and even their brand new extensions work as documented the first time I try them. When I have a problem on an Nvidia, I assume that it is my fault. With anyone else's drivers, I assume it is their fault. This has turned out correct almost all the time. I have heard more anecdotal reports of instability on some systems
with Nivida drivers recently, but I track stability separately from
correctness, because it can be influenced by so many outside factors.

ATI had been patiently pestering me about support for a few months, so last
month I finally took another stab at it. The standard OpenGL path worked
flawlessly, so I set about taking advantage of all the 8500 specific features.
As expected, I did run into more driver bugs, but ATI got me fixes rapidly,
and we soon had everything working properly. It is interesting to contrast
the Nvidia and ATI functionality:
Why some developers thinks MAtrox or Trident give them less problems
than ATi in their drivers ?

i think there is enough evidence in the internet
(if you want more info just ask )
to tell there is no excuse for a multibillion company like ATI to
not show alot more quality in their drivers and or hardware
out of the box and have gamers waiting for future releases of drivers
to be able to play latest games excuse!
its is clear than one of biggest mistakes of ATi is that
they Rush products in beta state like radeon8500 and even Radeon9700
its its AGp8x incompatibilites,powersupply issues and MANY latest games that dont run in retail drivers in the Cd..

i have heard that "ATi drivers were bad "even in RAgefury times,
even before Nvidia Tnt times ,The big irony is that Nvidia game drivers were Good in the Tnts days in direct3d and opengl when 3dfx was the standar in the gaming industry .
Off course Ati may change in the future and show real progress
in their Drivers ,but saying that Ati has bad drivers because
Nvidia is the standar and every programer optimize their games
for Nvidia is no excuse ,Nvidia good history in their past drivers
since TNT cards clearly prove that .
something to think about ..

Last edited by Nv40; 09-10-02 at 03:37 AM.
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