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Old 07-31-08, 06:46 AM   #11
NvFuchs
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzp View Post
I agree with the spirit of the thread's title.
I'd have some thoughts to add:
  • Perhaps it would be fruitful for Nvidia people to look at the open source nv driver especially in cases where nv works better. Maybe they already do this but they just don't tell us. Keep us informed to see what is going on in the Nvidia Linux kitchen. So people won't think that Nvidia just ignores the Linux user problems. (I admit, it's really frustrating to start threads that have 0 relevant replies for months...)
nv is developed by nvidia, and, at least it seems so on the Xorg mailing list, by the same people who develop the nvidia driver.
But I do agree with you on the "keep us up to date" part. However, after some days / hours I always got a response from nvidia up to now, so I am rather happy. But yes, there are people which seem to be ignored. I do not believe that nvidia ignores them, and I guess it is hard to keep up in the forum when you have loads of work to do. And they do have loads of work, and, as you can see from the stickies, not enough manpower.

Quote:
  • I agree with those who say that opening up the driver source would be beneficial for the driver quality. Even if not GPL-ed, but at least a read-only access to the code (or some/most parts of it) could be useful as a starting point. This way Nvidia could get a huge amount of code proofreading power for free. Not to mention the full opening.
    (I'm not saying that this will solve all problems at once, e.g. X.org has it's problems too. But at least the fixes are done sooner.)
    This is would be a selling point too, people just would like to buy a card that has better quality drivers. It's about money.
Again, this is _not_ possible because of intellectual property, by nvidia and, what is more important, probably by third parties, which would have to agree to a full opening as well. Guess why ati didn't open their driver either, but started a new, open one from scratch.


As for this thread in general: Full ack. As stated by many people in digg comments: some people are just whiny, unfair and full of hate. Of course you might be disappointed when a product you bought doesn't work well on the operating system you use, but

a) many of those performance problems, aside the KDE4 problem, are already minimized, and not worth that much of bitching in my opinion.

b) the other problems are know and being addressed by nvidia. You can't expect wonders by a obviously too small developer team, which has to take care of other problems as well at the same time.

c) nvidia never tagged their products as designed for Linux. And in fact, supporting linux seems to be hard: people start bitching when it fails to compile against kernel-2.6.somewhat-git-released-two-minutes-ago (no, I am not talking about the current kernel thread, this one is fine) or Xorg-Not-Even-Released-Or-Marked-Stable. Some xorg and kernel devs try to make it even harder for nvidia because they don't like closed source drivers; nvidia depends on linux support for other hard- and software (acpi as an example), which is somewhere between acceptable, lacking and not existant ...

So: a nvidia driver dev is facing a constant developing of kernel and xorg which he has to keep up to, hardware manufacturers which cause problems (read: bad ACPI implementation, doing own stuff with the driver as an example in brightness controll), people constantly bashing them at the moment for all kind of problems, people bitching because the driver is not open (which is definitely not a developers decision) ...

and for that situation, I am happy with what I got:
a working driver, with working suspend (because my laptop manufacturer at least tries to follow some standards) on two laptops, with good 3D and 2D performance, as long as not using Qt4 / KDE4. And they are working hard on that.

I'd really love to see some of the people bitching around here when everybody criticizes their work on a 24/7 base, keep spamming their communication platform with the same bitching in multiple threads, while they are in a company with not enough manpower and so under constant stress.

Sometimes I think people really forget that they are talking to people on the internet, not machines.

Fuchs
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