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Old 07-07-09, 07:14 AM   #101
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 379
Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

Originally Posted by Protoplasym View Post
A. Definitely! Wow, 20 times, lol... I went through the first one about 3 or 4 times and #2 twice.
Well I played it alot with friends, and we kept going back to it and playing it through, I prolly only went through it by myself about 4-5 times(by myself I mean, we played together but mostly I ended up playing in SP mode with my character)

I'm right there with ya, can't wait for D3!!! It's gonna be the Hack n Slash we've all come to love, but sooo much better... ALTHOUGH, I am VERY disappointed that Blizzard has refused to spend the money make a 360 degree rotating camera with full 90 degree tilt functionality. Their 'beyond' lame and BS excuse is that, "we want the game to retain it's old school feel", lol. All the hell they'd have to do to satisfy people that want a stiff isometric view is to make it an option, voila. It's obvious to me that they're greedy for money and refuse to spend the money and time to develop a kicka*s camera system (which has been the norm for what, 5 years now). They've got an up to date camera for SC2, whyTH won't they make one for the gorgeous world they're creating for D3???
TBH, I feel it would kind of ruin the flow if they made a rotatable camera, while I liked games like Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Nights, I found I kept having to adjust the camera position all the time and I never found a suitable spot, and since they are top-down style games, they dont work so well with a third-person camera, not to mention all the annoying times when the camera gets blocked by some geometry.
That said, I am not a huge fan of top-down RPGs now, and I think diablo 3 is the only recent game I think suits this style, even Fallout 3 I am glad they went the way they did.
And dont get me started on 2d/top-down MMORPGs, the whole concept of a MMO is freedom and character advancement/customization, then they wack you on a 2d plane where you can barely make out your character.

B. Yeah, they had points at the end of the levels.... and tbh: I wish ID would go back to the idea of 'Episodes'... but I'm sure they won't... ever.
I might do something in the project ive decided to start, but....since im the only one going to be working on it(for a couple of months at least), cant really expect to play it for at least a year, and it wouldnt be anywhere near as good as if a large company had worked on it.

C. It looks fun, I'll definitely pick it up on Ebay when I see it for $20ish.

D. I've never heard of 'rogue-likes'... and yeah, I've tried the DnD thing on paper, and it just wasn't my cup. Programming eh, that's rad: pardon me for not knowing what Chip8 Emulation is, sometihng to do with Commodore or Atari?
Chip8 is a really old computer, I dont think its either one though, its just a really old, very simply computer, I could go into detail on the mechanics but only someone who has gotten into emulation programming, hardware engineers or other people who have delved into say, asm programming would understand
To make it simple though, Chip8 had a 64x32 pixel screen, pixels can only be on or off, they hold no colour value, by comparison, the gameboy has a palette of grayscale, also, the only sound a Chip8 has is a "Beep", its not capable of any other sounds.

E. Man, give it another go... if needbe: make your own custom race, or copy your fav race, and mess with the .xml file by "upping" some of the properties. I 'have' to have my custom race tweaked up, because I play against multiple, 'very' smart AIs and they still give me a hard time. GCIIToA is the only game that's given me the feeling that I am a God overlooking a Civilization in it's entirety, some RTSs have gotten close to that, but nothing like this game. Being in charge of 'taking over the Galaxy' is a reward unto itself.
I may do, got alot of things on my plate at the moment though, so it wont be for awhile

Cool beans, I understand now what the target frame rate means. I still disagree though that just because they're only going to have to have a framerate that's 30 fps less than 60, it doesn't necessarily mean that the game is going to look "3x as good", lol... imo anyway... this is obviously subjective.

On one hand, does it mean that 30 extra fps nets the makers of Doom 4 to have 3x as many models on screen as Rage? or Does it mean that there can be 3x the amount of shaders/effects present on screen at once? or That the textures can be twice or 3x as high quality as Rage? I really appreciate you explaining it in laymens terms, but I'd like to know how this "3x better" is going to be qualified is all.

Also, since they're goint to target (what imo is the 'lowest' a framerate can go for a game to still feel solid, with V-Sync on mind you) 30 fps: does anyone think ID is going to ensure that IDTech 5 does its own Triple Buffering or allow drivers to force it in order to aid the effects of using V-Sync that is?...
Well, the biggest factor is hardware, take Doom 3 for example, it was initially designed for GeForce 3 cards, and while it still ran on those cards, it didnt do very well, and iirc doom 3 came out after the release of the geforce 6x00 series? Thats 3 generations of hardware later.
Rage has been in development for awhile now so id expect it prolly in 2010, by the sound of it Doom 4 has only just started development, so I wouldnt expect it before 2011, we have the DX11 generation of hardware due before the end of the year, and at least another generation before 2011, so we are looking at at least 3 times the performance between now and 2011.
The lower framerate will allow more advanced shaders to be performed, extra physics time, more AI, more world detail etc, since at 60FPS, each frame can only take 16 milliseconds to process everything in the view, AI, sound, loading data(models/textures/sounds), physics, gameplay etc, it all has only 16ms to meet their 60FPS target.
With a 30FPS target though, the game now has 33 milliseconds per frame, thats more then double the time they have with a 60FPS target, which can be used for anything, not just graphics.
Now, art can vary from dev team to dev team, so we will never know how much better(or worse) Doom 4 will look compared to Rage.
So essentially, with over double the time for calculations per frame, including new, faster hardware, it has the potential to look at least 3 times better, not to say it will, but it could.
And it could even look better with amazing art design.

Hell, I say call it Doom 4 Hell on Earth and recreate part 2 with all the possibilities that the new Tech is going to open up. Have 30+ badguys on the screen at once, MASSIVE amounts of blood, bring back EXPLODING OF BODIES for christ sake, no idea why this was done away with.

I'm going through Return to Castle Wolfenstein right now, and guess what ID, the bodies EXPLODE... wtFingf! Bring that back!! Half Life had exploding bodies, lol... christ, come to think of it, Valve did away with the exploding bodies in part 2. Quake 1 and 2 had exploding bodies, and RTCW is IDTech 3 and it has them. wth

Anyone know whyTH these Devs did away with blowing bodies up???? It's an epic aspect of true carnage!
You should play the latest Soldier of Fortune(I think it got banned in australia), that has all kinds of mess, infact, lemme find one of my screenshots.

Thats gotta hurt....

I can guarantee you this, guys (and you can say I'm talking sh*te all you want, that's fair), but mark my words: Rage is going to have all the innovation ID has saved up, and all the left over nonsense and half as*ed work is what D4 is going to get.

Reason I've come to this conclusion is because: ID considering where they came from, look at them now: they refuse to be contacted by the gamers they "claim to care about/want to impress/make fun games for", they don't give a f*ck about our opinions, and they sure as hell don't take criticism.
I pretty much agree, though id arent really known for gameplay innovation :P
Not since Quake 1 anyway.
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