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Old 07-08-09, 03:25 PM   #103
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Post Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

Originally Posted by Atomizer View Post
A. TBH, I feel it would kind of ruin the flow if they made a rotatable camera, while I liked games like Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Nights, I found I kept having to adjust the camera position all the time and I never found a suitable spot, and since they are top-down style games, they dont work so well with a third-person camera, not to mention all the annoying times when the camera gets blocked by some geometry.
That said, I am not a huge fan of top-down RPGs now, and I think diablo 3 is the only recent game I think suits this style, even Fallout 3 I am glad they went the way they did.
And dont get me started on 2d/top-down MMORPGs, the whole concept of a MMO is freedom and character advancement/customization, then they wack you on a 2d plane where you can barely make out your character.

B. I might do something in the project ive decided to start, but....since im the only one going to be working on it(for a couple of months at least), cant really expect to play it for at least a year, and it wouldnt be anywhere near as good as if a large company had worked on it.

C. Chip8 is a really old computer, I dont think its either one though, its just a really old, very simply computer, I could go into detail on the mechanics but only someone who has gotten into emulation programming, hardware engineers or other people who have delved into say, asm programming would understand
To make it simple though, Chip8 had a 64x32 pixel screen, pixels can only be on or off, they hold no colour value, by comparison, the gameboy has a palette of grayscale, also, the only sound a Chip8 has is a "Beep", its not capable of any other sounds.

D. Well, the biggest factor is hardware, take Doom 3 for example, it was initially designed for GeForce 3 cards, and while it still ran on those cards, it didnt do very well, and iirc doom 3 came out after the release of the geforce 6x00 series? Thats 3 generations of hardware later.
Rage has been in development for awhile now so id expect it prolly in 2010, by the sound of it Doom 4 has only just started development, so I wouldnt expect it before 2011, we have the DX11 generation of hardware due before the end of the year, and at least another generation before 2011, so we are looking at at least 3 times the performance between now and 2011.
The lower framerate will allow more advanced shaders to be performed, extra physics time, more AI, more world detail etc, since at 60FPS, each frame can only take 16 milliseconds to process everything in the view, AI, sound, loading data(models/textures/sounds), physics, gameplay etc, it all has only 16ms to meet their 60FPS target.
With a 30FPS target though, the game now has 33 milliseconds per frame, thats more then double the time they have with a 60FPS target, which can be used for anything, not just graphics.
Now, art can vary from dev team to dev team, so we will never know how much better(or worse) Doom 4 will look compared to Rage.
So essentially, with over double the time for calculations per frame, including new, faster hardware, it has the potential to look at least 3 times better, not to say it will, but it could.
And it could even look better with amazing art design.

E. You should play the latest Soldier of Fortune(I think it got banned in australia), that has all kinds of mess, infact, lemme find one of my screenshots.

Thats gotta hurt....

I pretty much agree, though id arent really known for gameplay innovation :P
Not since Quake 1 anyway

A. I hear what you're saying and understand that this is the general stance from most of the die hard original Diablo fans.... but seriously: how hard is it to simply 'make that an option'... I mean c'mon.... make it an option make it an option With said box checked in the options menu, the camera won't move and will only allow zoom in/out like the originals... but with it unchecked, people who want freedom of movement can rotate/tilt/and have big zoom in/out. Honestly... after playing NeverWinter Nights and that totally badass camera... it was 'very, very' hard to get going with Titan Quest. In TQ, here I was in this 'amazingly' well done little world... flowing grass, awesome water shaders/etc... and wtf, all I can do is zoom in and out. I've noticed the weird frame rate issues when zooming in on some spots of the world, and I imagine that Iron Lore simply couldn't figure out why they were losing so many frames when the camera was zoomed in... thus most likely lost all hope of implementing freedom of view for the player, because I'm sure with the engine in it's current state, it would have killed the frames.

If it's the same case with D3s' engine, then so be it, but in all honesty, considering Blizzard freakin prints their own money with what they pull in from WoW, there are (imo) zero excuses to not give players like me the best of both worlds. And with it being an option, players like you that want to go through it oldschool like, can have it their way too.

Being a programmer, you tell me: is it truely 'that' hard to design a gorgeous engine like TQ or D3 with 'that' many highly detailed models on the screen at once, 'and' give the player full camera freedom. I noticed there really aren't that many models on the screen at once in games like NeverWinter Nights, hence my assumption...

B. I assume you're talking about a mod for Doom3. Check these badboys out if you hadn't seen them... they're not complete, but I can't wait to play them if they're ever finished.;83827
I doubt this guy will ever finish this, lol... but it looks soooo badass... it'd definitely make it so I could play Doom3 for life.... this guy is thinking about random monster placement... totally in line with what I envision for what todays shooter 'should' be.
Doesn't look like they ever finished the SP for this...

C. Wow, that sounds oldschool! I'm sure you're doing it because it's fun for you and a learning experience taboot. I miss Tetris on my Gameboy... good times!

D. Thank you very much for the indepth explanation... it's all coming together for me now. With how you explained it, it sounds like.... AHHH ha! I think I got what they're going to do for Doom 4... having the target framerate at 30 instead of 60 'might' give them the extra juice needed to have hordes of baddies on the screen at once!!!! That makes sense to me. I don't see them using the extra room to improve the AI, not ID anyway, lol!

Awesome, maybe we'll have a true Doom 2 remake now! with lots and lots of baddies to run through

E. Lol, funny screenshot for sure. I've got it.. and part 2 gold. Haven't started 2, but I'm a couple levels into 3, it's been fun so far... I'm in some jungle level atm, haven't loaded it up in months though. I thought the reviews were WAY off base. Besides the engine not letting me force AA for whatever reason (thank god the engine looks good), V-Sync works and the frames are blazing fast. I think it looks great, has a really solid feel to it for a shooter, and is fun. Linear and obvious that it didn't have a huge amount of funds put into it, I think it turned out quite well considering....

I agree, but I disagree in that I think Doom 3 has the possibility to be the best Horror Shooter of all time. If that nightmare mod (that I linked to ^) ever comes to fruition, it'll end up being my fav game of all time. The atmosphere really gets to me when I'm there on Mars... the sounds, the placid sour look of everything, the darkness... it's the enemy placement/deployment that's holding it back... so in that sense, I think ID was 'right' on the verge of being very innovative at making the best horror shooter ever.

I truly don't understand how oversight like this happens at a top notch Video Game Company.... it's not rocket science... they had the formula 'so' close to being perfect.

WHOEVER the hell said, "lets spawn bad guys in all the time" needs to be flogged!
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