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Old 11-11-03, 03:39 PM   #86
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United Kingdom
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I can't believe you just said that...that has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read.
I try.

A benchmark is supposed to be fair and apples to apples comparison or as close to one as is possible. What you are suggesting is an apples to oranges comparison where oranges are the preferred fruit. I hope I made this simple enough for you to see your error.
I see what you're getting at, but its not valid anymore. _ALL_ future games will have their shaders tinkered with by a much more complex compiler than we currently have. This will be true for all IHV's. Not just the ones that balls up their hardware. Putting a patch out that deliberately circumvents these optimizations is wrong.

And about those compilers...I have no problem with them at all so long as they don't decrease image quality or do stuff that wasn't intended by the developer. If a developer asks for output A using X instructions the compiler should optimize X instructions but still output A. Anytime that output A is different because of a compiler should raise red flags.
Okay, so what if a driver engineer manually changes the shader so that it still outputs A, but is loads faster for their hardware? Is that wrong? To me thats good. I'd prefer a bit of automation in there, but NV wrongly decided on how much investment to put into shader compilers for their current hardware. The end result is they had to manually do it, or die.

Tests like the one here with 3DMark show that it sure as hell wasn't the compiler providing the optimization but hand picked "optimizations" instead. A compiler would not suddenly lose performance in a program because that program changes itself so it could no longer be detected by cheating drivers.
True, but you said if it outputs the right stuff, with the same IQ by a compiler its fine. NV are just manually doing what their future compiler should do.

NVIDIA has definately lost me as a customer till at least the NV50...and that is provided they remove all their old cheats and can show they have a IQ and perfomance lead on ATI.
Disregarding AA quality, what area does NV fall behind in? I personally think NV has better image quality. Their texture sharpness always looks that little bit better to me.
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