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Old 11-23-04, 11:14 AM   #47
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 575
Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

Originally Posted by jbirney
You and others were "crying" that ATI had all the time in the world to tweak ... and NV had none....blah blah blah I was just trying to point out that the same case was present in Doom3. And the fact these same folks did not seem to mind when NV/Doom3 has this advantange. So if its good for one but not good for the other? Thats the point I was trying to make. We all know that NV and ID worked together to bring Doom3. We all know that ATI/Valve worked on HL2. Alls I am saying is we knew that NV was going to be faster in Doom3 with out looking at any bechmarks. Just as we know ATI was going to be faster in HL2.
were we crying, not really, just wondering what the hurt was coming from, thats not the same case, as Doom 3 was orginally made and run on ATI hardware. They had the time to optimize for them.

Originally Posted by jbirney
Whats wrong with ATI drivers in Doom3 besides being a bit slower? My 9700pro played the game just fine. Abeit not at the FPS that NV users got. Besides since NV is doing shader replacement in Doom3 why shouldn't ATI? Good for the goose, good for the gander right?.

Originally Posted by jbirney
I did not over look it I just dont know how value's water shader is working. Do you have the source for it as I would like to see it....

But your comparing two differnet engines and expecting simular drops in simular effects? Your also forgetting HL2 water shader is around 90 instructions where as the most complicated shader in Farcry is only 60. Thats a big difference and the answer could lie in there..
You don't need to look over the code, hmm interseting, 90 instructions do something that should take under 50 wonder why? You just answered the speed question. 90 instructions can be done in one pass on an sm 2.0b path. but on sm 2.0 can't be done, sm 2.0 has a 32 instruction limit on texture operations and 64 instruction slots.

If Vavle is forcing the gf 6 cards to run on the sm 2.0 path and nothing else its taking them an extra pass which they don't need to do. Thats pretty pathatic on Valve's part there is no recoding involved just have to let the gf's run ATI's path

nvidia on Doom 3, probably not shader replacement just better optimization for the engine on the cpu end. They didn't even have ultra shadow going!

Its always been better with Carmack's engine because they optimize for the cpu usage. Thats regular driver developement and maturity.

Originally Posted by jbirney
Dave already answered the "ATI" level issues you had. And HL2 being ATI biased.....well Duh I would expect for 6 million you get som perks In that same thread that you quoted from I have already said that I am worried that IHV and Developer "realations" like this are bad for us consumers. So no I am not happy about what ATI and NV has done.

Dave didn't answer the level issues, he's off the mark on that one you answered it, well you told me the answer and didn't know it. Now you see its not the cards, its the shader counts and what paths Valve chooses to force the nvidia's cards on.
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