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Old 11-24-04, 08:31 AM   #55
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

Originally Posted by Razor1
Please your point is not there, because you left out the fact Carmack didn't make those optimizations, Nvidia did
Who wrote the NV30 path for doom and spent more than a year developing it only to drop it at the end? It wasn't NV. Again everyone knows that NV and ID worked together on Doom3.

You're the one that said it uses 90 instructions maybe you want to read over how instruction sets and limitations on different code paths work..... oh yeah we know that the sm 3.0 code path isn't in there, what path is the geforces running on then, not ATI's path because who said the geforce 6 paths are not as optimized as the radeon x800 paths?
I realize what paths that are used will effect the perfromance. And I dont know what path the ATI cards are using. Since 3Dc is also not being used you could guess that the other ATI features are also not being used...but I dont know so thats just a wild guess..

I do know alot more then you are giving me credit for, I don't know valve's code but I know the way my code works and how to optimize for different graphics hardware.
No I give you credit. Just you can not expect to know all of the details about somone elses shader code when you dont have it in front of you. You have no idea what they are doing with it. Thus your guess to the cause is just as bad/good as the next persons.

He never said they were doing shader replacement, so thats not concerete. He said the drivers are doing something funny, most likly something with the AA and AF, not shader replacement.
From JC himself: (

. On the other hand, the Nvidia drivers have been tuned for Doom's primary light/surface interaction fragment program and innocuous code changes can "fall off the fast path" ,and cause significant performance impacts, especially on NV30 class
I took the liberty of Bolding the part we he says NV has tuned their drivers (IE shader replacement). And please note I am not saying this is a bad thing. Just poiting out that both sides are doing it in Doom3.

I'm not guessing if its using 90 instructions for that shader it will take one more pass on a native dx9 path. Dave was guessing more then I was. Its not a hardware issue if Valve purposefully did that, and from your own mouth you said it was a 90 instruction shader. And that you reported from where?
From Brandon last HL2 perfromance review over at FS.

It does not make sense to Valve, or ID or any other dev, but if you have, lets say, 6 million reasons (or any other number we could put in here) then it could make sense for someone else part
Your forgetting about the inclusion of HL2 in ATI cards. How many HL2 vouchers got shipped with ATI cards? I think that would be neat to know. I dont think valve let ATI just have them. Part of that 6 million figure had to cover that. I know I have been playing HL2 free thanks to that 9600 I bought last year I mean why should I pay 50 bucks for the game when ATI will do it for me

BTW you do know that nV paid about 4 million to Id/Activision for Doom3 "rights" right? I suppose we can run wild with theories there as well.....
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