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Old 02-06-05, 04:23 PM   #21
Nv40
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Default Re: DEvmaster.net article Hl2 vs D3 engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intel17
NV40, There was a gloss map modification written for Doom 3. It was about 3 lines of code. That eliminated the plastic problem and you can simulate any material with the gloss maps. Also, at one point Id software had the *FULL POLYGON* models running around in the game...I mean the ones they made the normal maps out of. It ran slowly, but it worked.

Also, in a JC email I posted, D3 engine also has HDR, all that's needed is better integration with the systems, but it works well enough.

Finally,all textures in D3 are 256x256. Now imagine them all at 1024x1024 and the character textures at 2048x2048.

The Engine is the most advanced out...period. Whether the game makes use of it well, that's another issue.

Doom3 have limitations like any other engine.. is far from perfect. it took crytek many months to add HDR in their game. Doom3 game doesnt have anything of that. however the engine if it has any sort of "HDR" most likely will be a very simple low dynamic hack.. using pixel shaders and no FPblending ,means no advanced HDR effects in any game..like transparencies and reflections. (they way only NV40 can do.) and since this is only an NVidia thing.. and *the fact* the he got Nv40 cards pretty much when Doom3 was finished. at Gamedevconference2004 ,when the game was in bug fixing stage. the chances that there is anything interesting of "HDR" for the MOD community are NONE. dont listen the people that confuse "bloom" effects with "HDR" just like the ones where saying they exist in CS:source. even Valve demos where not HDR.. just simpler lighting tricks. Farcry Sm3.0 patch in the other hand support it.

ANy discussion about Engines in a -gaming forum- are useless ,if you dont analize them from a MOD making perpective of view. *if you can't get any use from it as a gamer* .at the time you need to write code or custom fragments shaders or change the way the renderer works .. what you are doing is not modding , but a diferent engine .which in any case you are doing a diferent game.it will be better that you design your own engine if you have the knowledge.. the sky is the limit. or pay thousands for a license and get the full source code of the engine and game code.similar to what Splintercell3 is to UT2k4. in which the first one support Sm3.0 ,but the core game engine is still based on a DX7. SO writing a custom renderer or adding HDR.. and enhancing all its network/outdoors/lightings limitations it migh be still a game using DOom3 engine ,but with heavy modifications in it.. something very diferent in some areas from what carmack designed. in few cases it can be called a hack ,like the "HDR MOD". which is nothing but bloom effects possible in any pixelshader 1.0 card.

my english is not good enough .. to follow the speed of anyone speaking fast. but i can read without problems.. and someone posted his speech completely in this forum but i can;t find it where it now.. to show you where he speaks about his engine limitations and that he is working on it now.

http://www.3ddownloads.com/linuxgame...CD571FD4F5139F

if you can find me a place where to find the Full speech in text.. to show you where he explain D3 engine limitations.. and what it means.
however found this thread where someone received an email with more info about this..



Quote:
> Hi, > I'm currently messing around with shaders and materials, and have come to some issues. Mainly I've been wanting to have a shader that allows for things to be changed by the shader and then lit appropriately (such as for parallax mapping on selected textures). Or having waves through a vertex shader but still have that lit as well. Can kinda get around some things by modulating a white diffuse map with the texture I want but doesn't work for everything of course. So is there anyway I can specify a different light interaction shader for a material? Thanks! > > John Rittenhouse >

Sorry, D3 doesn't have a way to force different lighting interaction shaders. That is an obvious thing changing in new code, but D3 is still baselined to support non-fragment program cards.
- John Carmack
from the horse mouth.. you just can't "fix" Doom3 materials interactivity with Lighting by just editing a fragment shader here and there.. any 3danimation software that emulates specular values for for diferent materials use Mathematics values and physics from the real world. things like glass ,ceramic or water refractions is a complete science to simulated it realistically . already 3danimation software can simulate it .. but do it in a realtime game that should run at 30fps..is something completely diferent.. probably will will not see it.. until raytracing is used in game.

THis is no way saying Doom3 engine is not powerfull or so.. it is.. it have many next generation stuff in the game.. it just that Doom3 engine was designed for the most part with the needs of Doom3.. no more no less.. and any incomming games using Doom3 engine ,doing a diferent game ..will be updated the engine by their developers for their needs in their game . just like it happened with CALL of Duty and MOH games.. they doesnt look like quake 3.. but still its basic core is based around QUake3. Hl2 still have bits of code from quake1/2.. according with -JC ..for example.

Last edited by Nv40; 02-06-05 at 05:39 PM.
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