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View Poll Results: Nvidia should
support free driver developers with tech docs etc. 29 76.32%
release the source code of the current drivers 18 47.37%
ignore me 4 10.53%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-30-03, 07:38 AM   #13
plasma
I want free(libre)drivers
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by nutball
When I said unstable I didn't mean that it crashes, I mean that the underlying software is changing very rapidly. This means that if I want to upgrade my e-mail client, or web browser, chances are I'll have to update a whole load of other stuff, and chances are that those upgrades will be incompatible with something else on my system.
It's called debian not as easy to setup, but very nice to maintain.

Quote:
Do you honestly expect NVIDIA to start publishing commercial confidential information about the architecture of their latest chips which could give their competitors an advantage?
If it's usefull for writing good drivers, Yes. No that's not comercial deathwish.

Quote:
If NVIDIA have ownership of the drivers and the drivers suck I can tell them they suck and I have the right to expect them to be fixed.
expecting isn't a guarantee.

Quote:
If the drivers are open source and there's a problem and I say so, then I get some smart arse saying "well why don't you hack the driver source and fix the problem and send us a patch" it doesn't really get me anywhere. I don't care about hacking kernel or driver source, I got all that hack nonsense out of my system twenty years ago. I just want a stable platform which works correctly so I can do my job and develop end-user applications.
If you're having a problem someone else probably has too - nvidia should fix it if asked. If they don't you're not screwed (unlike the current situation ). Because the code is free it's likely to be more stable (more people will check it, debug it and it's likely to be tidier).
Quote:
(Which isn't what I have at the moment: NVIDIA your current Linux drivers suck and need fixing).
Agreed.
IMHO freeing them would be an empowering fix
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Old 03-30-03, 01:37 PM   #14
zoon64
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Wink Linforce

I they dont want to release the drivers maybe they should devellop there own Linux Distro made only for Nvidia products like motherboars with Nforce1/2 chipsets and there graphics range.


Can you imagine no overhead pure NVIDIA power to play with.

What dreams may come. HEHE
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Old 04-09-03, 08:51 AM   #15
jackangel
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Default Hell, I've just created a similar topic, when there's this one! But listen here folks

All of you people are encouraged to ask nvidia to release all their linux/freebsd drivers as open source. I've created an online petition where you can sign it, later I'll send it to NVIDIA by snail-mail. Please, consider it seriously, it's very important issue. If we can get NVIDIA release their drivers open-source, kernel hackers will quickly fix many bugs and boost their performance, also possibly simplifying installation process or converting the driver architecture to standard DRI.

Here's the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/hwopennv/petition.html
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Old 04-09-03, 10:46 AM   #16
nutball
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Default Re: Hell, I've just created a similar topic, when there's this one! But listen here f

Quote:
Originally posted by jackangel
If we can get NVIDIA release their drivers open-source, kernel hackers will quickly fix many bugs and boost their performance
Maybe.
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Old 04-09-03, 10:52 AM   #17
hohlraum
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That must be why the opensource ATI drivers are so wonderful. *cough*
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Old 04-09-03, 11:20 AM   #18
jackangel
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ATI drivers may not be very good now, but the data is present, everyone with programming skills may develop it - you'll see, they'll be great in no time
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Old 04-14-03, 09:50 PM   #19
verysoft
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Default ATI yeah, yeah

The most regretable decision I ever made was to believe the hype and buy an ATI radeon VE.
While everything works fine under win, you are completely stuffed under linux. ATI does not even have the courtesy to distribute their "free" drivers.
Instead you find links to some non existend 'precisioninsight.com' which folded up some years ago. Or gatos! absolutely hopeless, distributing the radeon 1.1 driver, that does absolutely nothing foer any distro. One poor lonely soul is hacking in some godforsaken CVS-tree.
I tried to get my radeon going for almost a year, downloading hundreds of Mb's, CVS's broke my debian distro, tried RH, tried mandrake -> anything but 3d!
When last XFree-4.3 was released I had hope again. recompiled everything including latest kernel module for the evasive 1.2/1.3 module! It hung up that badly that I could not find my SCSI-drive after hard reboot!
Beeing completely fed up I bought a Geforce4/Leadtek for A$98 on the weekend market. Sunday afternoon I was braindead enough to install a wrong driver, e-mailed nvidia and had a response in under 2hrs with a link to the correct software - installed and ran it.

Conclusion: anybody suggestiing even a keyhanger made by ATI for use with a linux system to me risks severe personal injury!
Recommending any ATI products under linux only shows that you have not the faintest idea, and just blab some BS that you picked up elsewhere!

However! I still got my ATI, if you like it so much, for 50 bucks its yours buddy!
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Old 04-15-03, 05:17 AM   #20
plasma
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Default Re: ATI yeah, yeah

Interesting.
According to the dri site it's supported. It does mention problems with early VIA chipsets and a hack to get pci cards to work.... (also use the "radeon" driver, not the "ati" one) Also I read somewhere that S3 Texture Compression is patented and consequently not implemented in these drivers.

Of course Nvidia 3d acceleration will never work out of the box with debian with the current proprietry drivers... (see the Debian Social Contract). This is obviosly nvidia's problem not debian's.

ATI has made the necessary hardware and programming information available to Linux developers for the development of hardware 3D acceleration.
So perhaps it's not ideal, but its a start and obviously something nvidia could follow (and hopefully better. eg by actually paying the driver developers, and having the drivers available nearer launch (without comprimising quality)). I don't think it's much to ask of nvidia to match ati's support of independent free driver developers.
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Old 04-15-03, 06:14 PM   #21
verysoft
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sorry if I might have sound a tad rude, but this is what exactly what I mean: you read the site, you read the reviews, and you hear another successstory. Unfortunately you be in for some nasty surprise as soon as you have the real thing.
The kernel *radeon* driver continously clash with the xfree-drivers.
The kernel only compiles up to 4.1 (check out your config) - and this is just the start of your odyssee. When I said I tried everything believe me. NVIDIA hiccups like modprobes, headers not found or compiler mismatch didn' even irritate me.

But this was not **YOUR** point, and I am sorry to elaborate that much. You are right: it would be nice to have the nvidia as open source, preferable distributed with the kernel.
Just ATI is a really bad example.

Like not everybody you smoke a joint with turns out to be a nice person, there is a lot of hype and rubbish, and just because it runs under the linux-name doesn't mean its nice or good.
The work done on the ati kernel by the community s great, but this is such a complicated and big project that it could not be undertaken without massive support from the manufacturer. It is not just good enough to release some data and don't give a damn what happen to it, and than claim you are ->the<- open source supporter.
Just for the heck of it: try to download a kernel module radeon1.2 (7000 series). considering that I tried to get the card going for 6mnth means I did not get much use out of it eventhough it is a year old by now
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Old 04-15-03, 07:07 PM   #22
driehuis
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I'm glad many people in this forum acknowledge that writing high performance drivers is _hard_!

The issues most folks have with the nvidia drivers require deep magic to debug. Now, I'm a staunch supporter of open source, but my practical concern with the binary drivers for FreeBSD is not that I can't debug X. I tried debugging X drivers back when it was "simply" a matter of getting the ramdac settings right, and I gave up on that. I don't even want to think about debugging AGP or 3D cores! I'm more impacted by the fact that I can't just install XFree and be done with it. I just upgraded my FreeBSD installation from 4.7 to 4.8, and consequently XFree from 4.2 to 4.3, and have been suffering hard hangs -- which means that I'm in for a fun session of twiddling knobs and see which makes it stable. Compounded by the fact that if I start X without a window manager, and then start X normally, the problem doesn't show (which of course I forget every so often, and then I get the joy of running a manual fsck to recover the file system -- and of course, the crash is so quick and so total that no log files survive the crash, so even if I had source I would be clueless where to look).

The free "nv" driver in XFree sucks to the point that it breaks even xterm! You have to disable 2D acceleration to get readable text in an xterm -- which makes my 2GHz 1GB machine with a Ti4200 feel like a 486 with an dumb frame buffer when using X.

When it comes to high performance graphics, I sometimes long for win2k. If I can make a plea to nvidia, it's to ship the drivers for the most conservative mode that is (almost :-) guaranteed not to crash a system by default. Then again, I think that is their aim already.

I'd toss my Ti4200 in a jiffy if a decent 3D board with stable XFree drivers was available; screw the investment. But I haven't seen any vendor do this better. The stable boards are slow and the fast ones are flaky on FreeBSD. And I somehow doubt that a huge talent pool exists that knows how to tackle such low level stuff as AGP, with all the motherboard differences thrown into the mix. Of course, if more sources were available, many smaller nuisances would be tackled by the community real quickly; like the libGL.so link issue I mentioned in another thread, and the "out of the box" experience that improves when integration testing can be done prior to a release such as FreeBSD 4.8.

For now, I'm happy that nvidia concentrates on getting the drivers right (and from what I hear, I don't have to feel bad that the FreeBSD drivers are still 3203 based :-)
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