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Old 11-09-06, 06:05 PM   #13
majoridiot
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

hey cambo- THANK YOU VERY MUCH! i'll give this a shot later and trust it will work. i really appreciate the help and time it will save searching for the answer.

and thanks also to energyman76b for being a flaming example of how NOT to be a constructive open source member. i am certainly not a fan of windows... but i will say that i rarely had issues with double clicking a driver installer and having it work the first time. attacking people for not fitting your standard or for the distro they run is ridiculous.

my statement of having to be a better way was not an attack. i was hoping it would lead to constructive discussion spawned from a negative thread starter. so let's try again-

maybe it would be a good idea to have distro-specific stickies or sub-folders where issues such as the init3, etc. could be posted by members?

etc...
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Old 11-09-06, 06:29 PM   #14
energyman76b
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

well, you started the attacking. And so you got back what you dealt yourself.

It is not nvidia's fault, that Ubuntu is totally braindead and utter crap.

(no root, sudo with the users pw.. can't get any worse, removing functionality from the desktops...).
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Old 11-09-06, 08:32 PM   #15
majoridiot
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

my post was not meant as an attack... both of yours were. i'm sorry you feel such hostility toward anyone that does not lock-step with your visions of distros, etc. i am glad there are forums like this to share information and- at times- point out less than ideal situations constructively.

obviously there is no way to turn this negative thread starter positive.

thanks again cambo!
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Old 11-09-06, 09:53 PM   #16
gtbrad
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Well, first the fact that you have to reinstall the Nvidia driver each time the kernel gets reinstalled is not Nvidia's fault at all. In fact, the DRI drivers also often use modules, just like Nvidia. The only difference, is that your distro detects those modules and reinstalls them automatically for you. There is nothing that says your distro can not do that for Nvidia's module, they just don't (Often because they are open source bigots). But the fact that drivers are kernel level components is a linux design decision, something that Nvidia has no say on what so ever. There have been talks about moving the drivers to userspace (like windows), but currently that is nothing more than talk and some experimentation.

Plan fact of the matter is that nvidia drivers are the best out there in linux. Are they open source no, but guess what, open source has nothing to do with the quality of the code. In fact, to some extent, open source is the reason that Nvidia's drivers are lacking some features in the linux world, because there often no API or system for Nvidia to write drivers to. At any rate, problems with the way distros handle the Nvidia driver have nothing to do with Nvidia. If you have a complaint, complain to your distro maker, that they do not write wrappers or wizards to make the installing of Nvidia's driver smoother on their enviroment. Open sourcing will not magically fix the "state" of Nvidia's drivers, just like it did not fix the via driver or the radeon 200 series.

Finally, I am tired of hearing about linux being ready for the masses or not. Since when has world computer OS conquest been the purpose of linux? The question should be, is linux useful and how can we make it better. If the average Windows moron uses it, fine. Do I care how many millions use it, nope not in the least. Is having the OS make all your decisions for you and hold your "double click the installer" hand the best way to make an OS, probably not. But, if those are things you want/need, buy a Mac.

Oh, and who gives a flip who started the attacking....
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Old 11-10-06, 12:50 PM   #17
someone2000
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster

You've just described in detail your distributions's inability to manage its kernel releases, and your inability to solve problems (even when you've solved them before!)

1): you ran an update and "didn't notice" that a new kernel got installed. How is this nvidia's fault?
No, but its someone's fault that there isn't a much better way to have a driver for a new kernel. This building it stuff is for the birds !

And yes, I did run yum update and not notice. I was multi tasking. A whole bunch of stuff got updated in that session. You are perfect ?

Quote:
2) "something is messed up with X, startx gives me a bunch of
errors"... well, no-one, including nvidia, can help with a problem when that's all the description you give.
I don't need help ! I got it running, as usual. With enough mucking around one can get a driver built, but its the mucking around that peeves me off.

Quote:
3) It took you 10 minutes to remember that you had to give the installer a kernel path last time? How is this nvidia's fault?
It shouldn't need the path in the first place. Ever heard of something called find ? uname -a will tell you what kernel you are running !

Quote:
4) The config.h file issue was created by a change in the kernel, which nvidia wasn't warned about in advance. And you expect nvidia drivers which were released before that change to work? Do you have any crystal balls for sale?
We shouldn't be BUILDING drivers for our kernels. They should be built with the kernel like most other drivers ! The building is the problem because it is too fragile. I've seen it fail many times !

Quote:
5) "So I reboot with that kernel and try both installers
again, with no success !" - again, how can anyone help you, with such a description of the problem?
I am not looking for help. I got it running before I read this ! I wrote my OP with nvidia and the new kernel running. I'm just telling people that the process to do so sucks !

Quote:
6) Having a package named "kmod-nvidia" is the decision of your distro. nvidia has nothing to do with it.
livna having a prebuilt driver is a work around to the fact that the existing method of distributing the driver sucks.

Quote:
7) I have lynx version 2.8.6rel.2. It works just great with google.
Apparently there is something wrong with my system in this regard.

Quote:
You need to make a decision here: if you're going to maintain your computer with the packages provided by your distribution, then don't install software outside of the package manager. If there are problems with installing packages, then complain to your distro, not to nvidia who have no control over it!
nvidia could release code to the kernel developers or release the specs for their cards and we could have nvidia drivers that get built with the kernel. All these other efforts are work arounds to that fact. Nvidia DOES control how the linux drivers are distributed in this regard.


Quote:
Ah, the inevitable veiled threats. You're complaining about issues that aren't caused by nvidia and can't be solved by nvidia! If I were nvidia, I wouldn't be unhappy to lose customers like you.
Funny, I've never had to manually build a driver for any other piece of hardware on my laptop. Only my nvidia video card. I'm sure that GM was at one time happy to lose "customers like me", ie people who want something better. I think that is how Toyota and Honda got such a foothold.

Be careful what you wish for !
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Old 11-10-06, 01:32 PM   #18
energyman76b
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

abd who forces you to use -preX kernels?

Who forces you to change kernels at all?

I am installing the released final kernels - and I don't have any problems to install nvidia drivers.

Hm, I must do something wrong. Maybe it is my choice of kernels? Or maybe it is my distribution (gentoo)?
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Old 11-10-06, 05:04 PM   #19
gtbrad
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

Quote:
nvidia could release code to the kernel developers or release the specs for their cards and we could have nvidia drivers that get built with the kernel. All these other efforts are work arounds to that fact. Nvidia DOES control how the linux drivers are distributed in this regard.
Dude, you are still not getting it. The Nvidia open sourcing their drivers is A WORK AROUND to the fact that your DISTRO is full of OPEN SOURCE BIGOTS. YOUR DISTRO has made the choice not to include binary only drivers in their kernel (which would be really easy) because it is against a purely open source philosophy. Well, that is great, but your DISTRO, in taking this Stallmanian stance, is SCREWING YOU. Your's and the rest of the damn open source communty's blatherings for Nvidia and ATI to open their drivers source is tantamount to the US government ording everyone to take only sponge baths in order to eliminate accidental drownings. Just as you can stop accidental drownings in baths with other methods than forcing everyone to take sponge baths, there are many MORE PRATICAL and FAIR ways to get the drivers to install more easily. But instead of taking those other measures, you and the rest of the open source community want to have your cake and eat it too. Well guess what, the world does not work that way.

Quote:
Ah, the inevitable veiled threats. You're complaining about issues that aren't caused by nvidia and can't be solved by nvidia! If I were nvidia, I wouldn't be unhappy to lose customers like you.
No, these threats do not hurt Nvidia, because no matter what platform you are running, your only choice of graphics is ATI or Nvidia, and as ****ty as ATI's drivers are for all their platform, Nvidia is going to have plenty of business. Instead, this kills LINUX drivers, because nothing says that Nvidia has to make Linux drivers, and if they stopped doing it, we would all be SOL. So, tell you what, if you think Nvidia drivers suck; then go ahead, leave, hell leave linux too and go buy a damn Mac, it sounds up your alley, but do not ruin the best Linux drivers for all the rest of us that are happy with them.
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Old 11-10-06, 05:12 PM   #20
Thunderbird
 
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Default Re: nvidia installer system sucks, sucks, sucks !

As explained by others the reason that the Nvidia drivers broke after a kernel upgrade was that they needed a recompile which is quite normal. This isn't really Nvidia's fault. After this it started escaliting a sort of flamewar, so that's why I'm closing it now.
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