Go Back   nV News Forums > Hardware Forums > Home Theater A/V

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-28-07, 03:13 PM   #13
evilchris
 
evilchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,411
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

It's hilarious that Sony TV's perfectly deinterlace 1080i. Defeats their whole "OMGMFM TOSHIABA HD DDVD DPALAYERS ATR EOnLuy 1080ii1!!!!! HEhehEHE OU NEED BNLUUUUUEUE RAY 1-80-p111!!!
__________________
[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/CENTER][B][CENTER]--Communist Party of America--[/CENTER][/B]
evilchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 04:28 PM   #14
lduguay
Un-Ripped
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montreal, Canaduh!
Posts: 1,968
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilchris
It's hilarious that Sony TV's perfectly deinterlace 1080i. Defeats their whole "OMGMFM TOSHIABA HD DDVD DPALAYERS ATR EOnLuy 1080ii1!!!!! HEhehEHE OU NEED BNLUUUUUEUE RAY 1-80-p111!!!
__________________

Evga X58|I7 965 3.8GHz|Ultra 120 Extreme|Evga GTX 480 SC|2 x Intel X25-M 80GB RAID 0|Intel 520 - 240 GB|WD Black Caviar 1TB|6GB Corsair XMS3 1600C8 |Corsair 1000W PSU|Antec Twelve-Hundred|DELL U3011|Logitech G500|Logitech G19
lduguay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-07, 11:31 AM   #15
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

UPDATE: Performance on Standard DVD, a comparison of Standard DVD deinterlacing!

With this wide array of hardware at my disposal, I have the ability to test how these units fair on standard DVD. So, with this in mind, I decided to watch some standard DVDs until I found noticable deinterlacing artifacts. I found some right at the start of the standard DVD side of "The Departed" HD DVD/DVD combo; the Warner Bros logo had obvious stairstepping.

So, when viewing this scene, I tried to view it four different ways - all scaled by the HD-A35 (ABT1018 scaler chip) but deinterlaced by different components
1) 1080p24 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion off, Motion Enhancer off/ Deinterlaced by HD-A35
2) 1080i60 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by Sony KDS-60A3000
3) 1080p60 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by HD-A35
4) 1080i60 passed to DTC-9.8 from HD-A35, 1080p60 passed to TV by DTC-9.8, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by DTC-9.8

In short, test cases 1-3 all displayed the stairstepping while test case 4 did not. Why? Well, DVD is a much more difficult beast to deinterlace than HD DVD since you do not have native 24p stored on disc all the time; often with standard DVD there is flagging of partial field/frames in the signal. Therefore it becomes a much more difficult for the job for the deinterlacer compared to HD DVD, where the job is easy as the film is stored 24p on disc and the 60i signal is generated by the player. Since DVD is stored 480i60 on disc, in all methods the signal will be need to be deinterlaced as you cannot simply grab the native stream off the disc as with HD DVD. So methods 1 & 3 use the deinterlacer in the HD-A35 while method 2 uses the deinterlacer in the TV and method 4 uses the deinterlacer in the DTC-9.8. The acclaimed Reon chip in the DTC-9.8 did the best job of all. So, if you do not have access to a Reon chip in your pre/pro or receiver and watch a lot of standard DVD, you might want to pick up a Reon-based HD DVD player for best deinterlacing. Some popular ones are the Toshiba HD-XA2, Onkyo DV-HD805, and Samsung BD-UP5000.

In the end, for my particular setup, the best quality combined with the most convenience on ALL sources looks like it may be acquired by letting the Reon in the DTC-9.8 do the scaaling/deinterlacing work to 1080p, then pass that to the Sony where it can use its Cinemotion Auto2 technology to remove duplicate frames from the signal on film sources for 24p output.

On an unrelated note to this update, I can confirm that the DTC-9.8 does not accept 1080p over component; therefore I decided to bypass the scaler in the XBOX 360 by setting it to output its native 720p and allow the Reon to handle the scaling to 1080p; almost all 360 games are 720p and those that do support 1080p like Virtua Tennis 3 run better at 720p anyway. This seems to work well and is more convenient than running 1080p component directly to my HDTV.
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-07, 07:04 PM   #16
FastM
GeForceFlop
 
FastM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 545
Send a message via ICQ to FastM
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined
UPDATE: Performance on Standard DVD, a comparison of Standard DVD deinterlacing!

With this wide array of hardware at my disposal, I have the ability to test how these units fair on standard DVD. So, with this in mind, I decided to watch some standard DVDs until I found noticable deinterlacing artifacts. I found some right at the start of the standard DVD side of "The Departed" HD DVD/DVD combo; the Warner Bros logo had obvious stairstepping.

So, when viewing this scene, I tried to view it four different ways - all scaled by the HD-A35 (ABT1018 scaler chip) but deinterlaced by different components
1) 1080p24 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion off, Motion Enhancer off/ Deinterlaced by HD-A35
2) 1080i60 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by Sony KDS-60A3000
3) 1080p60 passed to TV from HD-A35, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by HD-A35
4) 1080i60 passed to DTC-9.8 from HD-A35, 1080p60 passed to TV by DTC-9.8, CineMotion Auto2, Motion Enhancer off / Deinterlaced by DTC-9.8

In short, test cases 1-3 all displayed the stairstepping while test case 4 did not. Why? Well, DVD is a much more difficult beast to deinterlace than HD DVD since you do not have native 24p stored on disc all the time; often with standard DVD there is flagging of partial field/frames in the signal. Therefore it becomes a much more difficult for the job for the deinterlacer compared to HD DVD, where the job is easy as the film is stored 24p on disc and the 60i signal is generated by the player. Since DVD is stored 480i60 on disc, in all methods the signal will be need to be deinterlaced as you cannot simply grab the native stream off the disc as with HD DVD. So methods 1 & 3 use the deinterlacer in the HD-A35 while method 2 uses the deinterlacer in the TV and method 4 uses the deinterlacer in the DTC-9.8. The acclaimed Reon chip in the DTC-9.8 did the best job of all. So, if you do not have access to a Reon chip in your pre/pro or receiver and watch a lot of standard DVD, you might want to pick up a Reon-based HD DVD player for best deinterlacing. Some popular ones are the Toshiba HD-XA2, Onkyo DV-HD805, and Samsung BD-UP5000.

In the end, for my particular setup, the best quality combined with the most convenience on ALL sources looks like it may be acquired by letting the Reon in the DTC-9.8 do the scaaling/deinterlacing work to 1080p, then pass that to the Sony where it can use its Cinemotion Auto2 technology to remove duplicate frames from the signal on film sources for 24p output.

On an unrelated note to this update, I can confirm that the DTC-9.8 does not accept 1080p over component; therefore I decided to bypass the scaler in the XBOX 360 by setting it to output its native 720p and allow the Reon to handle the scaling to 1080p; almost all 360 games are 720p and those that do support 1080p like Virtua Tennis 3 run better at 720p anyway. This seems to work well and is more convenient than running 1080p component directly to my HDTV.
Ruined, your posts make more sense then all the 1000+ replied threads over at AVS Forums. I've spent alot of time reading through AVS feeling more confused than I started.

Iv'e got a 46" XBR4 and want to understand how to properly use the features like cinemotion. What does Cinemotion Auto1 do vs Auto2 or Off?

Right now I dont have a BR or HDDVD player, I have an Explorer 8300HD (HDMI) for all HD TV viewing, a normal soft modded xbox (720p output) for watching DVD's and other media. And last my laptop (Dell XPS M1710) to play games and watch certain HD video's).

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
__________________
AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile Technology ML-37
(1MB L2 cache, 2.0GHz) | Radeon® Xpress 200M | 1GB DDR333 | ATI® MOBILITY™ RADEON® X700 128MB | Realtek ALC250 | Toshiba MK-1032GAX 100GB 16m | Matsh1ta UJ-845S 8x DVD Burner | WSXGA+ 15.4" 1680x1050 | The Ferrari 4005 |
FastM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-07, 07:10 AM   #17
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastM
Iv'e got a 46" XBR4 and want to understand how to properly use the features like cinemotion. What does Cinemotion Auto1 do vs Auto2 or Off?
As I far as I understand it the features work like this... But remember, Sony has been tight lipped about it and has given conflicting information so it may not be 100% right. This is just what I assume based on my observations:

Motion Enhancer = Artificially interpolates between frames, thereby creating new frames that were not in the original signal, in order to make motion look more fluid. Standard creates less new frames, High creates more new frames/interpolates more.

Cinemotion = Attempts to detect film material and process it to regain original cadence so it can be displayed at 24fps without judder; Auto1 works together with Motion Enhancer, Auto2 disables Motion Enhancer for film-based material. This should work with both 1080i60 and 1080p30 input; it is not needed with 1080p24 input.

Some people are confused because they still see stutter with Cinemotion Auto2 + motion enhancer disabled when watching movies. IMO that is simply the nature of film which runs at 24fps where we can detect stutter; the type of filming can also exacerbate this. You aren't going to completely eliminate stutter from film without using something like Motion Enhancer; however, you can get rid of the unnatural 3:2 judder without using Motion Enhancer.

So basically I believe that if you want the original frames of your source preserved, you'd go with Cinemotion Auto2/Motion Enhancer Disabled; only exception to this is if you are sending native 1080p24 to the TV, in which case you'd turn off both cinemotion and motion enhancer.

If you want your films to be 24fps but you'd like to see your 30fps content (concerts, nature documentaries, games) made more fluid than original, you'd go with Cinemotion Auto2/Motion Enhancer Standard.

If you want everything to look more fluid, Cinemotion Auto1, Motion Enhancer Standard.
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-07, 10:07 AM   #18
FastM
GeForceFlop
 
FastM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 545
Send a message via ICQ to FastM
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined
If you want your films to be 24fps but you'd like to see your 30fps content (concerts, nature documentaries, games) made more fluid than original, you'd go with Cinemotion Auto2/Motion Enhancer Standard.
thanks for taking the time, I will try this tonight. Who knew TV viewing would become so complicated.
__________________
AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile Technology ML-37
(1MB L2 cache, 2.0GHz) | Radeon® Xpress 200M | 1GB DDR333 | ATI® MOBILITY™ RADEON® X700 128MB | Realtek ALC250 | Toshiba MK-1032GAX 100GB 16m | Matsh1ta UJ-845S 8x DVD Burner | WSXGA+ 15.4" 1680x1050 | The Ferrari 4005 |
FastM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-07, 10:29 AM   #19
Ruined
Registered User
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: An HDMI 1.3 MEGAreview!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastM
thanks for taking the time, I will try this tonight. Who knew TV viewing would become so complicated.


Just gives you more options. I turn off motion enhancer because I think it makes everything look like a videogame, but I could see some liking the more fluid look on non-film material.
__________________
We're all in it together.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz CPU | Intel G965WH mobo | 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2-667mhz CAS5 RAM (1066MHz FSB) | BFG GeForce 285 GTX OC 1GB | Dell E228WFP 22" DVI-HDCP LCD Monitor | 1TB Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Main Drive | 500GBx2 Western Digital RE3 SATA2 Scratch Drives in RAID0 | Western Digital RE3 1TB SATA2 Media Drive | External 2TB Western Digital MyBook Backup Drive | Adaptec eSATA 3.0gbps PCI-E interface | Sandisk External 12-in-1 Flash Card Reader | LG GGC-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD writer | LG GGW-H20L HD DVD/BD reader, DVD/BD writer | Microsoft E4000 Ergonomic Keyboard | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Antec P182 ATX Case | Thermaltake ToughPower XT 850w modular PSU | KRK RP-8 Rokit Studio Monitors | Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Ruined is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IOGEAR 3D Complete+ 4-Port HDMI Switcher with 2D/3D Video Processor News Archived News Items 0 06-28-12 06:40 PM
How do I play PS3 on my Sony Vaio while using HDMI cable? AbbieJohnson Archived News Items 0 06-18-12 06:04 AM
Blu-ray 3D Movie Playback With PC on a 3D HDTV Using HDMI 1.4 News Archived News Items 0 05-16-12 04:30 AM
Dual monitor config w/o HDMI avs234 NVIDIA Linux 0 05-12-12 12:23 AM
HDMI audio ELD weirdness RockHound NVIDIA Linux 0 05-11-12 04:45 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2014, nV News.