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Old 04-20-08, 11:14 AM   #13
Silverbak
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NvFuchs
Now name me a car manufactorer which cares
for updating functinality for an old car.
Fuchs
Exactly. I can't help but feel that anyone who thinks that drivers for 5 year old graphics cards should be receiving continued commercial driver development beyond security and big fixes is misguided as to the business model NVIDIA use and the usage model that reasonable consumers use. If you thought that this was the case when you bought your graphics card you are seriously off-the-wall with your expectations.

Like I said before though, if an open source solution becomes viable, it will probably get support, and heck, you can even write the solution yourself; if the closed source drivers aren't meeting your needs then just don't bloody well use them people! When you've switched to an alternative solution that works you could send NVIDIA a letter to let them know.
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Old 04-20-08, 11:17 AM   #14
Lethe
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

It doesn't matter. The legacy drivers do NOT stay advanced with later code base (i.e. kernel 2.6.25).

Much like I could have a car and get new seats, respray, new engine, whatever, to keep it running as new.

"Sorry, we don't supply those tyres no more - buy a new car".

No matter what argument you can try, nVidia do not support Customers on Gnu/Linux that buy the cards.

Nick
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Old 04-20-08, 11:32 AM   #15
NvFuchs
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethe
It doesn't matter. The legacy drivers do NOT stay advanced with later code base (i.e. kernel 2.6.25).
You are wrong, 1st time.
Purpose of the legacy drivers are,
next to security and bug fixes,
compatibility with newer systems / kernels.

Quote:
Much like I could have a car and get new seats, respray, new engine, whatever, to keep it running as new.
Well, if you are good in soldering ...

jokes aside: car engines and seats are, sometimes,
meant to be replaced. Parts of graphic cards aren't,
same for competitors cards.

so: again wrong.

Quote:
"Sorry, we don't supply those tyres no more - buy a new car".
repeating something that is wrong wont make it right,
no matter how many times you repeat it.

Quote:
No matter what argument you can try, nVidia do not support Customers on Gnu/Linux that buy the cards.

Nick
Yeah?
Then what is
http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
and
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14
or
linux-bugs@nvidia.com

if not support?

Guess you have to re-read the meaning of "support".

Thanks in advance,

Fuchs
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Old 04-20-08, 11:38 AM   #16
Lethe
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

OK, without making this a flamewar.

I have a non-SSE optimised CPU. I run git kernels. Latest drivers do not work with my CPU. Legacy drivers do not build with latest git kernel.

I spent on a nVidia cards over the years, but no option is available to me now ~ NONE. Unless, of course, I upgrade my hardware to suit the nVidia driver and degrade my system to use 6 month old kernel base (I mean, it IS open source, so should easily be doable - unless, of course, nVidia don't like it to much).

My last rant on this issue.

I use (and try to support) Nouveau driver now anyway.

Nick
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Old 04-20-08, 01:37 PM   #17
cellstije
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
And? What's the point here? Can we finally run maya on a Intel Chip, because we can run it directly from the console, so we don't have the overhead of the _slow_ X-Server anymore?
maya?! you are missing the point completely, man!
It was to show what I meant in my first post: intel has a PLAN for the future.
(AMD also given the specs/support/money it is putting in radeon/radeonHD/fglrx drivers - 3 DRIVERS, 2 opensources ...)

kernel-modesetting is just the tip of the iceberg. Take gallium3d for example, is has a general purpose state tracker, they use it to map OPENGL, but they could use it to map DIRECTX, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
... and why are you still posting? I though you are testing now Intel's/AMD's legacy graphic hardware with _new & shiny_ drivers?
jaysis man, you just keep missing the point... it is possibly my fault, however, if you interested in understanding a bit of xorg agenda, read the following

http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2008/Notes

after that, tell me how nvidia is fitting/contributing to it

c.
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Old 04-20-08, 02:47 PM   #18
chunkey
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellstije
maya?! you are missing the point completely, man!
It was to show what I meant in my first post: intel has a PLAN for the future.
(AMD also given the specs/support/money it is putting in radeon/radeonHD/fglrx drivers - 3 DRIVERS, 2 opensources ...)

kernel-modesetting is just the tip of the iceberg. Take gallium3d for example, is has a general purpose state tracker, they use it to map OPENGL, but they could use it to map DIRECTX, ...
Well no... Think about it... when will this stuff be matured and ready for use? tomorrow? next month? next year? decade? or maybe never?

All new & shiny features you mentioned are far far away. they may look great & promising, but _only_ from the current point-of-view...

Take VAAPI as a example. It looked promising!
But after Intel decided to give XvMC new life with x264... The development nearly stopped... So, now you can argue that Intel/Someone will pick it up and complete it in the future...

So, where's the problem here? Well, what happends to complete VAAPI, when
the low-cost CPUs are fast enought to do the same thing _without_ hogging the system? exactly: "who cares about gpu video acceleration!"
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Old 04-21-08, 03:13 AM   #19
cellstije
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
Well no... Think about it... when will this stuff be matured and ready for use? tomorrow? next month? next year? decade? or maybe never?
as it stands, we will se something solid in the xorg tree by the end of the year, support for many gpus in a year time, etc ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
All new & shiny features you mentioned are far far away. they may look great & promising, but _only_ from the current point-of-view...
they are not far away, a first set of patches for dri2 have been posted to the xorg mailing list, people are testing it

Gallium is happening!

ttm is happening!

kernel modesetting is almost there!

work is being done on intel and radeon drivers!

randr1.2 has been designed and finished (by an intel man: Keith Packard)
randr1.3 has been designed (by the same person)

where is nvidia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
Take VAAPI as a example. It looked promising!
But after Intel decided to give XvMC new life with x264... The development nearly stopped... So, now you can argue that Intel/Someone will pick it up and complete it in the future...
you know how opensource works: it is not a cathedral, it is a bazar.
The important point is that xvmc is being developed and updated!
nvidia has dropped support for it ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkey
So, where's the problem here? Well, what happends to complete VAAPI, when
the low-cost CPUs are fast enought to do the same thing _without_ hogging the system? exactly: "who cares about gpu video acceleration!"
I do not get your question.
[sarcasm]
Are you telling me now that maya runs on intel gpus?
I do not know about maya, but blender does!
[/sarcasm]

c.
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Old 04-21-08, 04:56 AM   #20
chunkey
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Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellstije
as it stands, we will se something solid in the xorg tree by the end of the year, support for many gpus in a year time, etc ...

they are not far away, a first set of patches for dri2 have been posted to the xorg mailing list, people are testing it

Gallium is happening!

ttm is happening!

kernel modesetting is almost there!

work is being done on intel and radeon drivers!

randr1.2 has been designed and finished (by an intel man: Keith Packard)
randr1.3 has been designed (by the same person)

where is nvidia?
And there's a perfect example for this "next year attitude":
"HURD - will be ready next year"...

That stuff you are talking about won't be ready this or even next year...
So you could easily end up waiting the whole lifetime of your PC just to see some basic support... at the end if you are lucky, if not you wasted your money completely for the "spirit of good faith in modern economics!".

So, the situation with nvidia vs. amd/intel is: You can either grab a nvidia gfx now,
with all their features they have to offer (and the ones they don't offer yet, or will never) , or wait... and hope and hope and hope that the development won't cease or make u-turns!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellstije
you know how opensource works: it is not a cathedral, it is a bazar.
The important point is that xvmc is being developed and updated!
nvidia has dropped support for it ....

I do not get your question.
[sarcasm]
Are you telling me now that maya runs on intel gpus?
I do not know about maya, but blender does!
[/sarcasm]

c.
ahem?! Isn't VAAPI a perfect example of a development u-turn then?

And about your sarcasm: what's the score of a intel gpu in specview? Does it even get a single digit number, or will the slideshow never end?
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