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Old 07-15-08, 08:40 AM   #37
nekrosoft13
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

my last desktop ati card was X850XT, that was a while ago. Around the time CCC got introduced i quickly sold the card.

I kept on using my old laptop with 9600pro till around may 08. Always updating drivers when ever a new one was out. Still didn't like CCC it seems to bloated, slow to react.

Still no one showed any proof that you can set AA compability with ATI card for games that have trouble with AA. Since 4870x2 is multi-gpu, I also would like proof that you can adjust Multi-GPU rendering profile in detail. I heard that you can pick SFR (scissors) and AFR somehow, but there is more to it. There are maybe 100s if different AFR modes. Also lack of Super-Sampling AA would be missed.
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Old 07-15-08, 08:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Configuring ATI CrossFireX™ for ATI Radeon™ X1300 Series and Later
Use the Configure page to enable and configure dual, tri, and quad-GPU ATI CrossFireX configurations. When ATI CrossFireX support is enabled, 3D games and applications automatically uses ATI CrossFireX technology if the driver determines it to be the optimal solution.

When ATI Catalyst™ A.I. is enabled, the optimal rendering mode available for the 3D games and applications is automatically selected. You can also adjust Super Anti-Aliasing for ATI CrossFireX using the 3D aspects in the Graphics Settings tree. When ATI Catalyst A.I. is disabled, 3D games and applications do not use ATI CrossFireX technology. If necessary, you can disable this feature to temporarily suppress ATI CrossFireX support for 3D games and applications.
Quote:
ATI CrossFireX™ Rendering Modes
An ATI CrossFireX system has four possible display modes:

SuperTiling
Scissor Mode
Alternate Frame Rendering
Super Anti-aliasing
The first three are performance-oriented modes, while Super Anti-aliasing is a quality-oriented mode. Each mode uses a different method for dividing the workload required to render a 3D image across multiple GPUs. The ATI Catalyst™ display driver automatically selects the best of the three performance modes when a 3D application is started.

Tip: You can alternatively choose to improve image quality by selecting one of the Super Anti-aliasing modes (levels above 6X) in ATI Catalyst™ Control Center > Advanced > Graphics Settings > 3D > Anti-Aliasing.
I don't have crossfire but it looks like you simply enable it and either let Catalyst AI handle the mode it uses or you can manually set it to one if AI is disabled.
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Old 07-15-08, 09:00 AM   #39
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

CCC is crap, unorganized which eats a lot of RAM and freaking takes forever to load.

I don't use ATI cards and one of the reasons is CCC. Since it was released back in Radeon 9800XT periord, i said that's it. I tried it a few weeks ago again...same crap as it was before.

Nvidia ESA Tool is just perfect. It nicely integrates into control panel, everything is organizaed and profile manage is great.
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Old 07-15-08, 09:13 AM   #40
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by hell_of_doom227 View Post
CCC is crap, unorganized which eats a lot of RAM and freaking takes forever to load.

I don't use ATI cards and one of the reasons is CCC. Since it was released back in Radeon 9800XT periord, i said that's it. I tried it a few weeks ago again...same crap as it was before.

Nvidia ESA Tool is just perfect. It nicely integrates into control panel, everything is organizaed and profile manage is great.
Yes, it's such a memory hog. 40mb when CC panel is loaded and a whopping 3mb when not. My framerate is taking a huge hit from that 3mb being ate up by CCC.

You got anything besides opinionated bias?
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Old 07-15-08, 09:14 AM   #41
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by Tr1cK View Post
I don't have crossfire but it looks like you simply enable it and either let Catalyst AI handle the mode it uses or you can manually set it to one if AI is disabled.
Quote:
An ATI CrossFireX system has four possible display modes:

SuperTiling
Scissor Mode
Alternate Frame Rendering
Super Anti-aliasing
this part bothers me, since 4870x2 will also need CF.

Scissors mode i believe is related to SFR
Alternate Frame Rendering is AFR (same as nvidia) and there are two major AFR modes, AFR (older) and AFR2 (newer). AFR2 mostly has higher performance and compability.

Most important part is that each AFR mode has maybe 100 other modes that are set with "multichip_rendering_mode" Value="0x0240440D""

changing one value can fix performance, fix graphical glitches etc..

I still didn't see any proof that you can adjust CF profiles on this high level.
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Old 07-15-08, 09:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by nekrosoft13 View Post
this part bothers me, since 4870x2 will also need CF.

Scissors mode i believe is related to SFR
Alternate Frame Rendering is AFR (same as nvidia) and there are two major AFR modes, AFR (older) and AFR2 (newer). AFR2 mostly has higher performance and compability.

Most important part is that each AFR mode has maybe 100 other modes that are set with "multichip_rendering_mode" Value="0x0240440D""

changing one value can fix performance, fix graphical glitches etc..

I still didn't see any proof that you can adjust CF profiles on this high level.
I can't help you there. That info was from the help file. I guess I can't see crossfire options since I don't have it.
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Old 07-15-08, 09:26 AM   #43
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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CCC is crap, unorganized which eats a lot of RAM and freaking takes forever to load.
Your post has been reported. You need to quit spouting this unsubstantiated crap. CCC does not "take forever to load" anymore; it is just as quick as the Nvidia Control Panel to load.

When was the last time you used CCC... 1964? Join the rest of us in the 21st century.
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Old 07-15-08, 11:22 AM   #44
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

Guys, let hell_of_doom be. If he hasn't changed his opinion by now, he's not going to.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If that means being a fanatic about one thing and a hater for another, let them be. If you have your own opinion, stick to it.

I really like the way the 4870's are looking. With 1/2 the memory, you get about 80% of the performance of a 280 GTX. That's not bad! But at the same time, that still means the 280 GTX is the winner in overall performance. Some day, we may see that full 1GB of memory being used, and when we do, the 280 GTX is going to crush the 4870, because the 4870 only has 512mb... that's the 4850/4870's downfall currently. It's a great card, but it looks like the 280 GTX may be slightly more futureproof. At the same time, the 4850/4870 supports DX10.1, so it's anyone's call which card is better.

If I were to buy a card right now, it would be the 4870. It's a fantastic card for the money! That doesn't mean the 260/280 GTX sucks though. They're great cards... but I like the 4870 better. I'm also playing favorites just a little bit right now... Nvidia has been clobbering ATI recently, and now that ATI has finally made a card worthy of praise, I think they deserve a little money for their efforts.
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Old 07-15-08, 11:26 AM   #45
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
I really like the way the 4870's are looking. With 1/2 the memory, you get about 80% of the performance of a 280 GTX. That's not bad! But at the same time, that still means the 280 GTX is the winner in overall performance. Some day, we may see that full 1GB of memory being used, and when we do, the 280 GTX is going to crush the 4870, because the 4870 only has 512mb... that's the 4850/4870's downfall currently. It's a great card, but it looks like the 280 GTX may be slightly more futureproof. At the same time, the 4850/4870 supports DX10.1, so it's anyone's call which card is better.

If I were to buy a card right now, it would be the 4870. It's a fantastic card for the money! That doesn't mean the 260/280 GTX sucks though. They're great cards... but I like the 4870 better. I'm also playing favorites just a little bit right now... Nvidia has been clobbering ATI recently, and now that ATI has finally made a card worthy of praise, I think they deserve a little money for their efforts.
QFMFT.

I think that by the time we see games hitting the shelf that spit out 1GB Framebuffers, we will be craving more than a 4870 or 280 GPU and they will be available. Just like the 256MB to 512MB arguement a few years ago.

I remember 2 years ago people saying that getting the 256MB X1900XT was a bad move. That the 7950GT 512MB was the way to go. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The X1900XT 256MB edition was mostly as fast or faster across the board than the 512MB editions of the 7950GT. People said that this was not possible and that 1600x1200 with AA and AF, the 512MB would pull the 7950 based cards into the lead. This was not the case. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...XT_256M/5.html

Then again... Ultra res and AA modes against the X1950XTX and OC's 7900GTX's of the world... But framebuffer might not have been the problem.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821&p=7

But in normal tests and in the usualy game modes against cards in it's price class? It hung right in there with half the RAM.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/10779/6


To this day the X1900XT 256MB is a close match for those cards and by the time you push the card to the point where the 256MB hurts none of those cards from 2006 would be sufficient to provide a playable framerate. I think this is the same situation.

For someone to say that the RAM on the GTX260 and above obsoletes the 4000 series also means ALL cards from either company other than GTX200 are no longer a good investment. I think that is flawed thinking myself.

IMO 512MB is a good size and only became a defacto standard in the last 12 months and is still more than enough for resses below 1920x1200 with AA and AF.

1GB cards will become mainstream in a year I think. I will probably buy one. After only spending $289, it wont be that big a deal to upgade.

1920x1200 with high AA and high AF and maxed eyecandy? You might not have a choice but to get the GTX280 1GB or 4870x2-2GB edition. For everyone else? There's probably no issue with 512MB.

C.
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Old 07-15-08, 11:26 AM   #46
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
Guys, let hell_of_doom be. If he hasn't changed his opinion by now, he's not going to.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If that means being a fanatic about one thing and a hater for another, let them be. If you have your own opinion, stick to it.
very well said
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Old 07-15-08, 12:38 PM   #47
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
Some day, we may see that full 1GB of memory being used, and when we do, the 280 GTX is going to crush the 4870, because the 4870 only has 512mb... that's the 4850/4870's downfall currently. It's a great card, but it looks like the 280 GTX may be slightly more futureproof. At the same time, the 4850/4870 supports DX10.1, so it's anyone's call which card is better.
Good news.
Long before that will happen people will have a choice.
PowerColor HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 should be out this month.
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Old 07-15-08, 12:43 PM   #48
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Default Re: ByeBye GTX280, Hello 8800GTX

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Originally Posted by Xion X2 View Post
Your post has been reported. You need to quit spouting this unsubstantiated crap. CCC does not "take forever to load" anymore; it is just as quick as the Nvidia Control Panel to load.

When was the last time you used CCC... 1964? Join the rest of us in the 21st century.
I meant when you boot up your computer and you login. I think Nvidia control panel is more organized, especially profile manager.
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