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Old 08-08-03, 10:10 AM   #13
sphincter
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If you'll re-read my reply, you'll notice my first step is "log out".

As far as the "underlying system", performing an "init 3" from the console on linux unloads the entire X system, and rmmod'ing nvidia removes the driver from memory. You may do a reboot if you wish, but you don't gain anything by it, except, perhaps, your own "peace of mind". I, however, don't trust end-users to go mucking about in system files. And since it's much easier to damage a system via making a typo in a system file, rendering the system unbootable (at least without knowing some more advanced troubleshooting), than it is to hurt a system by doing an init 3, I'll take the latter.

If I was in a really pendantic mood, I would've mentioned that you can download the installer, reboot, hit "a" at the grub splash, on the append line add "single", run the installer, then reboot again to get back to X. But I'm not
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Old 08-08-03, 03:07 PM   #14
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Default Well, thanks for the fish

Ahh. Yes, I do see your first point. i missed your "log out " comment.

As for the rest, well, I happen to think it is a mistake to think that people have to be reliant on others always. It is better to help someone learn than to keep an "end-user" reliant on others.

Not everyone will do this, but is is rather satisfying to learn rather than be kept in the dark by someone. That infuriates most people, as it is rather an elitist approach.

What works for one, may not necessarily work for another. I recognize this. If the user can follow some simple instructions - then why treat them like they don't have a clue? I would be insulted if someone did that to me.

Besides, if it works for the user, what is the problem here really? I fail to see why helping someone to get to know their system hurts them in any way.
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Old 08-08-03, 08:47 PM   #15
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You misunderstand, I think. If a use wants to learn, I'm happy to get them started. Most don't. Most just want their system to run with a minimum of hassle. Most don't want to muck about with system files, and find it annoying in the extreme when they have to.

Also, the way I mention has the fewest possible bad ramifications for someone unfamiliar with system level commands and configuration. And protecting users from themselves is what I do for a living. And yes, that is the reality of it, protecting the users from themselves. And by protecting them from themselves, they are protected from me. Besides that, I'm really very tired of answering questions like "how do you spell vi?"
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Old 08-08-03, 10:48 PM   #16
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Talking Hmm.. Okay

I can't help thinking about a line form an old song that went:

"Save me from the people who would save me from myself."

The learning experience only occurs when you muck about a bit and make mistakes. If people don't want to muck about, I suspect they will not be here.

I can always be wrong though.
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Old 08-09-03, 07:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hmm.. Okay

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
I can't help thinking about a line form an old song that went:

"Save me from the people who would save me from myself."

The learning experience only occurs when you muck about a bit and make mistakes. If people don't want to muck about, I suspect they will not be here.

I can always be wrong though.
Perhaps my view is a bit skewed because I spend 50-60 hours a week cleaning up after users that have gone mucking about with things they had no business mucking about with, because some "helpful" person told them of a way to make things "better". Or because they found some web page somewhere that said if they just do $MAGICTHING, their system will have twice the blast power.

Understand, these are systems which are mission critical to their organization. Understand that these users expect me to magically devine whatever stupidity they've gotten themselves into, since they can't explain what they've done. Also, understand that it's my job to fix it. Or, as Einstein himself once said, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

This is, of course, different than a hobbyist who just wants to learn more about their system. As long as there isn't too much crying over that lost term paper or their financial records, I don't care what they do.

At any rate, I think we've gone far enough off topic for a long enough time. If you wish to continue this, we should take it to pm or email.
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Old 08-09-03, 11:08 AM   #18
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Question Jimbo: Well , enough of the lecture...

Jimbo: Now let's get to boxing!

Ned's voice: Umm.. what you got bi-atch?

(I assume you watch South Park?)

You do seem to have gone far afield on a personal note there. The people here just ask for help for free. This isn't a mission-critical support desk. It is supposed to be people helping people.

Take a break already. Go out and smell the breeze once in a while. The heat is on where I live, so it is either early in the AM or later at dusk for walking. The swimming pool is just fine for daylight hours though.

Take a break - relax - life is for living. Go out and enjoy it. No one ever regrets taking their vacations after they get laid off. They only regret not doing it. I know, I am glad I took mine. I recently got laid off for no good reason other than my VP was a complete ass. He runs off everyone who has integrity and keeps his small squad of those he can cower into fear or those who suck up really well. I have also found work in the meantime, so life goes on.

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Old 08-11-03, 02:45 AM   #19
Yuri
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Thank you guys for lots of recommendations.
They were really helpful. Nevertheless it is seem to be a different task for the linux newbie of my level to solve that problem.

The current state of affairs: linux starts under the runlevel 3, the latest nvidia driver is installed, but in the directory /etc/X11/ i can't find the file XF86Config, cause during the installation process i've skipped the X Configuration setup. Could i use as a substitution the nVidia sample configuration file which is supplied along with driver ? cause also can't start redhat-config-xfree856 utility to generate it , because it starts in graphic mode ?

Thanks in advance
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Old 08-11-03, 06:51 AM   #20
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Here's mine... you'll probably have to do some editing to make it match your set up though.

Code:
# File generated by anaconda.

Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "Anaconda Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"

# The location of the RGB database.  Note, this is the name of the
# file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db").  There is normally
# no need to change the default.
# Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together)
# By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of
# the X server to render fonts.
        RgbPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
        FontPath     "unix/:7100"
EndSection

Section "Module"

#        Load  "GLcore"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "extmod"
        Load  "fbdevhw"
#       Load "dri"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "freetype"
        Load  "type1"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

#       Option  "AutoRepeat"    "500 5"
# when using XQUEUE, comment out the above line, and uncomment the
# following line
#       Option  "Protocol"      "Xqueue"
# Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
#       Option  "Xleds"         "1 2 3"
# To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable.
#       Option  "XkbDisable"
# To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
# lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
# keyboard, you will probably want to use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "pc105"
# If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "microsoft"
#
# Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
# For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
# or:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
#       Option  "XkbVariant"    "nodeadkeys"
#
# If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
# control keys, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:nocaps"
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "keyboard"
        Option      "XkbRules" "xfree86"
        Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

        # Modified by mouseconfig
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option      "Buttons" "7"
        Option      "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"
        Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"
        Option      "Resolution" "1200"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
        ModelName    "Monitor Model"
        HorizSync    30.0 - 95.0
        VertRefresh  50.0 - 160.0
        ModeLine     "1400x1050" 129.0 1400 1464 1656 1960 1050 1051 1054 1100 +hsync +vsync
        ModeLine     "1400x1050" 151.0 1400 1464 1656 1960 1050 1051 1054 1100 +hsync +vsync
        ModeLine     "1400x1050" 162.0 1400 1464 1656 1960 1050 1051 1054 1100 +hsync +vsync
        ModeLine     "1400x1050" 184.0 1400 1464 1656 1960 1050 1051 1054 1100 +hsync +vsync
        Option      "dpms"        # -- 1400x1050 --
        # 1400x1050 @ 60Hz, 65.8 kHz hsync
EndSection

Section "Device"

        # no known options
        #BusID
        Identifier  "NVIDIA GeForce 3 (generic)"
        Driver      "nvidia"
        VendorName  "NVIDIA GeForce 3 (generic)"
        BoardName   "NVIDIA GeForce 3 (generic)"
#       Option      "DigitalVibrance" "1"
        Option      "CursorShadow" "on"
        Option      "RenderAccel" "TRUE"
        Option      "HWCursor" "TRUE"
        Option      "CursorShadowAlpha" "128"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "NVIDIA GeForce 3 (generic)"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth     24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     32
                Modes    "1600x1200" "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     24
                Modes    "1600x1200" "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     16
                Modes    "1600x1200" "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     8
                Modes    "1600x1200" "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Mode         0666
EndSection
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Old 08-11-03, 07:31 AM   #21
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so , the file XFConfig86 describes not only the video output staff but actually the whole configuration for X windows.
I mean if i will change the video card description lines for FX 5200
like that:

Section "Device"

# no known options
#BusID
Identifier "NVIDIA GeForce FX (generic)"
Driver "nvidia"
VendorName "NVIDIA GeForce FX (generic)"
BoardName "NVIDIA GeForce FX (generic)"
# Option "DigitalVibrance" "1"
Option "CursorShadow" "on"
Option "RenderAccel" "TRUE"
Option "HWCursor" "TRUE"
Option "CursorShadowAlpha" "128"
EndSection

and other device descriptions leave untouchable:
Mouse (Intelli Mouse USB) , Keyboard , Monitor ,( i don't know how properly describe them in the config file) , maybe it would cause another wave of problems ?
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Old 08-11-03, 07:49 AM   #22
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You can stick "generic" in there for an identifier if you want. It doesn't matter. The mouse will be more important. Your best advice at this point would be to google for a page on configuring your mouse under X, since I use a 7 button USB mouse. You'll probably want either the IMPS/2 or PS/2 driver, and probably want to change buttons to "5" and ZAxisMapping to "4 5". Again, google around for detailed explanations.
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