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Old 08-14-08, 12:19 PM   #13
thor1182
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

they are changing the mechanics of how a lot of the classes work, so what is true now might not be the case later.

and for you pvp people, say what you will but I hate it when your QQing screws up the PvE players.
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Old 08-14-08, 01:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

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Originally Posted by CaptnStubing View Post
The druid was intended to be the jack of all trades and master of none. Now a druid can tank better than a warrior except the end boss in the game. He can out heal a priest and do as much damage as a rogue.
I think blizzard said the intent is to be able to fill all roles in the game while being as powerful as all classes in those roles but not as versatile. The druid is supposed to do as much damage as a rogue, but no sap, blind, distract, etc, etc. This isn't the case though due to crappy itemization, a well geared feral will only do about 90% of the dps of a rogue (he will do a ton more burst damage though, but ultimately this doesn't mean anything.)

Feral tanks can be a bit overpowered tho In my guild we have a t6 pally and a t5 warrior, and then me a t4 feral tank. Yet in mount hyjal I am still chosen as the main tank because while I take more damage and consume more healer mana than the other tanks, the damage I take is far more consistent so the healers have a lot more room for error because I am highly tolerant of spike damage.

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Here is how almost all druids play. They either stealth in or charge is as a bear, start beating the crap out of you. If you seem to get the upper hand they run away then try again. They keep doing this and do nothing to help their side. The constant running away is also done in large groups. The moment they see they can't win they run. Total pussy. I have no respect for anyone who runs from a fight. Dying is no big deal. When you rez you get full health and mana. Durr!
I usually do this when I am pvping with just me vs a group. I'll pounce stun and generally 5 shot or less to kill the most squishy player in the group, then as the others start pounding on me I'll run off and re-stealth and repeat on another player. Running is necessary though. If you have to die then by the time you make it back, so will one of the ones you just killed and you basically have to start over again. A lot of times I won't even need to do this though. If its me vs two others I'll often pounce stun one (melee) and then beat down the other one (caster,) throw up nature's grasp so the melee guy gets caught in it, once the caster is down cyclone the melee guy and heal myself, then have my way with him.

Because of tactics like this feral druids tend to own bg's and world pvp, but it's not an arena spec at all. We easily do more melee burst damage than anybody and we have great survivability but we lack the ability to lock people down and/or cripple their healing ability. This will change in the expansion though due to the addition of several talents that seem aimed directly at fixing this. You can get decent arena ratings as a feral but it's not easy and the class pairing options you have are highly limited.

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Since I don't play a druid I haven't followed their wotlk talents that closely, but I did notice they're making feral charge the 21 feral talent. That alone would really help reduce a druids ability to lock down someone if the 51 point resto talent is a must have thing.
Off the top of my head...

Balance is going to get a talent that makes anything they touch get knocked back 5 yards and take 500 base nature damage. While this isn't talent related, the indoor restriction of roots is being removed (thank god.) The 1 minute cooldown on hurricane is being removed. The balance spec should be a lot more pve viable in the expansion whereas right now it is basically just looked at as a mage with no crowd control...people would just rather have the mage.

Feral is going to be given a berzerk talent that breaks all CC's and makes them immune to them for 20 seconds, as well as reducing the energy cost of all cat form abilities by 50% for the duration. Cat form is going to be given a feral charge that works much like rogue shadowstep, except instead of 20% increased damage, we instantly move behind the enemy and then daze them for 3 seconds. We're also being given a talent that makes mangle, shred, and maul apply a 10% movement debuff that stacks up to 5 times.

Resto...I don't remember much but we're going to be given a flash heal that is more powerful the more hots that are stacked, 360% increased armor in tree form with the 20% reduced movement speed removed, another aoe heal, and a talent that makes it so that anybody you put rejuvenate on gets increased rage, energy, or mana regen.

The whole class is getting a big pve nerf though. See, right now when we wipe in raids and 5 mans, we don't have to walk back because we don't resurrect people out of combat since it is a waste of a powerful cooldown. In the expansion however, we are being given a resurrect spell that works just like shaman, pally, priest resurrect. So now we'll have to walk back just like those saps do.
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Old 08-14-08, 01:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

you seemed to also take what alpha said about the strengths of a druid and add in your own heavily biased opinion.

and in a perfectly balanced 1v1 situation situation evenly geared healer and dps, it should be a stalemate. There is no reason the dps should be able to always kill the healer.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

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you seemed to also take what alpha said about the strengths of a druid and add in your own heavily biased opinion.

and in a perfectly balanced 1v1 situation situation evenly geared healer and dps, it should be a stalemate. There is no reason the dps should be able to always kill the healer.
Yeah against paladins and some resto shamans...we can't really kill each other. My health regenerates (due to improved leader of the pack) faster than they can do damage, and their mana regenerates faster than I can make them heal themselves.

Shamans I can kill but its a real pain in the ass. I have to time cyclone and maim just right as he is trying to heal himself so that he can't get any of those heals off, then I can finish him off in spite of his mana pool. If I make just one mistake though I have to start all over. Same thing with a holy priest. A disc priest will flat out own me on the other hand and there's nothing I can do about it.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

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they are changing the mechanics of how a lot of the classes work, so what is true now might not be the case later.

and for you pvp people, say what you will but I hate it when your QQing screws up the PvE players.
It was fine before they buffed up druids. The problem with druids isn't that they are not viable in PVE. All the buffs they got over the last year and a half did not help PVE. It helped them in PVP and that is what they were all crying about.

You are a typical druid. You guys cried for two years now you laugh at everyone because you are so over powered. Then when we point it out you act like a jack ass. 90% of all the druids I know have no skill at PVP. They sit back behind their classes ability to instantly switch between forms to get out of immobility, pop out to throw on a hot that heals through incredible damage. No other class can compete. It takes 3 or more to take you guys down and even then you end up running away shouting lawlz and almost all have the same smart ass attitude that you have. Come and play a shadow priest some time and see what it is like to play a well balanced class that can be beaten because you cannot run away.

The very idea that a druid would say anything about qqing is ****ing stupid. You guys have been the biggest bitches in the game.

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I think blizzard said the intent is to be able to fill all roles in the game while being as powerful as all classes in those roles but not as versatile. The druid is supposed to do as much damage as a rogue, but no sap, blind, distract, etc, etc. This isn't the case though due to crappy itemization, a well geared feral will only do about 90% of the dps of a rogue (he will do a ton more burst damage though, but ultimately this doesn't mean anything.)
There is no reason why a druid should do as much damage as a rogue and that was never their intent. They have said the rogue is supposed to be the top burst DPS melee class.

I don't mind a feral druid doing a lot of damage. I mind them being able to do a lot of damage and never die. That is the problem.
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Feral tanks can be a bit overpowered tho In my guild we have a t6 pally and a t5 warrior, and then me a t4 feral tank. Yet in mount hyjal I am still chosen as the main tank
Exactly. Warriors are not needed any more. I have a tank pally and he is so much better at tanking than my warrior tank whom I used for two and a half years. It isn't even a contest. Just because a warrior can be un-crushable in one or two instances does not mean people need them.

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I usually do this when I am pvping with just me vs a group. I'll pounce stun and generally 5 shot or less to kill the most squishy player in the group, then as the others start pounding on me I'll run off and re-stealth and repeat on another player. Running is necessary though. If you have to die then by the time you make it back, so will one of the ones you just killed and you basically have to start over again. A lot of times I won't even need to do this though. If its me vs two others I'll often pounce stun one (melee) and then beat down the other one (caster,) throw up nature's grasp so the melee guy gets caught in it, once the caster is down cyclone the melee guy and heal myself, then have my way with him.
Most druids don't achieve anything by doing this. You can get back there after you die and do the same thing. Druids do it just so they don't die and they always leave their group hanging with out a healer.

And you see what I mean about your ability to be a one man team? It is plain dumb how many tools you guys have to take on one or more. My shadow priest can only dream of doing this. I don't mind that I can't do it but damn no one class should have this much power.

I don't want my class or any other class buffed up. I want druids to have certain restrictions such as time and what not on their casts.
Quote:
Because of tactics like this feral druids tend to own bg's and world pvp, but it's not an arena spec at all. We easily do more melee burst damage than anybody and we have great survivability but we lack the ability to lock people down and/or cripple their healing ability. This will change in the expansion though due to the addition of several talents that seem aimed directly at fixing this. You can get decent arena ratings as a feral but it's not easy and the class pairing options you have are highly limited.
I hope they do fix it. It isn't just me but most of the WoW community sees the problem with druids. They did the same thing to shamen during the first year. They were unkillable almost and then they balanced them out a bid. They might be a bit underpowered but Im not sure.

All I want is a balance in the force. I know to many people who have quit because of druids in PVP. Like it or not PVP is a huge part of this game.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

I should note to your little QQing tirade that I don't and have never played a resto druid. The only druid that can hot themselves out of death are the restos. If you think a feral in feral gear can hot heal that kind of damage then you must be playing some other game.

What changed in a lot of this was arena. When it was just BG's nobody cared about this kind of thing. Suddenly you put in 2v2 brackets where some of the druid mechanics do very well when paired with certain classes... one of them warriors, but I didn't see you complaining about OP warriors in PvP... so much for wanting balance.

The rest of the WoW community wants druids to be easy kills, because that's what they where before TBC. Suddenly when they become a challenge to people who are used to rolling their faces on their keyboard people cry.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

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Originally Posted by CaptnStubing View Post
There is no reason why a druid should do as much damage as a rogue and that was never their intent. They have said the rogue is supposed to be the top burst DPS melee class.
Respectfully that can't be right though. Burst damage is the ability to be able to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, but not necessarily over long periods of time. Contrast that to DPS which is sustained damage over time. Ferals are better at the first, but worse at the later.

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Exactly. Warriors are not needed any more. I have a tank pally and he is so much better at tanking than my warrior tank whom I used for two and a half years. It isn't even a contest. Just because a warrior can be un-crushable in one or two instances does not mean people need them.
Hmm...I dunno. Even though I absolutely love my class and spec pve wise, druids are easily the weakest of the 3 tanking classes. We're the only tank that actually cannot tank some raid bosses where the other tanks can. Some that come to mind are tidewalker and illidan, though I believe there are at least 6 or so. Some fights a warrior will fare much better than a paladin due to his spell reflect, last stand, etc. In spite of that though, druids are still fun to tank with.

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Most druids don't achieve anything by doing this. You can get back there after you die and do the same thing. Druids do it just so they don't die and they always leave their group hanging with out a healer.
Well you only have 50% health and mana, whereas they can heal their man that just resurrected. Unless he decides to sit and drink...god I love it when people do this...see, many people don't realize that while sitting, any attack that lands on you is guaranteed to crit, and when ravage crits it will f*cking hurt

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And you see what I mean about your ability to be a one man team? It is plain dumb how many tools you guys have to take on one or more. My shadow priest can only dream of doing this. I don't mind that I can't do it but damn no one class should have this much power.
Eh...I dunno. We have this disc/shadow priest on my server named funkmonk who is known for trashing whole groups of people. But its not just him, I've seen a shadow priest take on groups of 3. I remember one time watching one in halaa mind control somebody off of a cliff, psychic scream the other two and burst them down while they were running around.

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I don't want my class or any other class buffed up. I want druids to have certain restrictions such as time and what not on their casts.
Have a look at the edit I made to the end of my last post
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Old 08-14-08, 02:40 PM   #20
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I should note to your little QQing tirade that I don't and have never played a resto druid.
Why btw? I do feral and resto. They are both extremely fun to pvp with. It's like I have three different classes (restokin, resto, and feral) with only rolling one toon.

PVE wise I find it rather easy to collect both resto and feral gear as I go along. When farming instances your guild shouldn't mind you need rolling on off-spec gear if main spec players already have it or have something better. If they are that anal about getting enchanting shards find another guild IMO.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:43 PM   #21
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I should note to your little QQing tirade that I don't and have never played a resto druid. The only druid that can hot themselves out of death are the restos. If you think a feral in feral gear can hot heal that kind of damage then you must be playing some other game.

What changed in a lot of this was arena. When it was just BG's nobody cared about this kind of thing. Suddenly you put in 2v2 brackets where some of the druid mechanics do very well when paired with certain classes... one of them warriors, but I didn't see you complaining about OP warriors in PvP... so much for wanting balance.

The rest of the WoW community wants druids to be easy kills, because that's what they where before TBC. Suddenly when they become a challenge to people who are used to rolling their faces on their keyboard people cry.
If any one says anything about druids you and they get offended. I don't care what class it is. Druids are way over powered and everyone but selfish druids like you disagree.

I don't do arenas. I just do regular BGs. Druids are ridiculous and have been for a long time.

What is even more annoying is the typical 14 year old attitude like yours that says qq, crying and what not.

Warriors are not over powered. They have to have gear for everything. They have no natural way to do for them selves that druids can do. For a warrior to hit like a mac truck they have to work hard to get that gear. Yet when a druid gets the same gear they are almost god like.

I have a lot of problems with warriors. They are immune to almost all my fear and mind control. I have no way to get away from a warrior. Sure its a problem but it doesn't mean warriors are over powered. It just means my class has a very tough time with this melee class. In short warriors are very well balanced. It is druids that are not balanced and your only reply is "we have to spec into that". That still means you can do it. No one else can.

Pallies were once up where you guys are but they can be handled now. The only other class that is just silly are hunters. They have an answer to everything I or any other class can throw at them. A hunter can run in, strip me of all my buffs, pop me out of shadow, stun me, be immune to my fear and unload massive damage on me. Still I can kill most hunters because hunters like druids are crappy players. They sit behind their classes abilities but don't know how to really play the game.

Please, bring more to the table other than the typical little kid reply of "qq".
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Old 08-14-08, 02:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

why bother with it when you are blind to any other point of view but yours? I seemed to have found a nerve of yours in showing that you are just as big if not bigger complainer than the ones you are accusing.

If you think its soo easy, then roll a druid and prove it. Prove to me that they are not gear dependent and easy owns.

For someone who is trying to act the big tough guy you certainly are acting very childish over my "juvenile" "qq more noob"
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Old 08-14-08, 02:57 PM   #23
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Respectfully that can't be right though. Burst damage is the ability to be able to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, but not necessarily over long periods of time. Contrast that to DPS which is sustained damage over time. Ferals are better at the first, but worse at the later.
I understand that. My problem is not with actual damage done by druids. It is their ability to survive while doing good damage. They can kill a couple of people with the same gear and then run off.



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Hmm...I dunno. Even though I absolutely love my class and spec pve wise, druids are easily the weakest of the 3 tanking classes. We're the only tank that actually cannot tank some raid bosses where the other tanks can. Some that come to mind are tidewalker and illidan, though I believe there are at least 6 or so. Some fights a warrior will fare much better than a paladin due to his spell reflect, last stand, etc. In spite of that though, druids are still fun to tank with.
This is true. My point is when you have people wanting druids over warriors for regular instances, that means heroic 5 mans, there is a problem.

I love tanking with my pally. Holding aggro is just silly. Oh and druids hold aggro better than warriors. You have to admit that is true. Warriors do have better defensive abilities.

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Well you only have 50% health and mana, whereas they can heal their man that just resurrected. Unless he decides to sit and drink...god I love it when people do this...see, many people don't realize that while sitting, any attack that lands on you is guaranteed to crit, and when ravage crits it will f*cking hurt
Which is why I have my bubble up 24/7 I speced into improved shield and inner fire. I am fairly hard to take down even though I am a squishie. I have 12k hp when buffed. The rest that keeps me alive is my skill. I am not the best at 1v1 but I can wreak havoc in a group setting. I support the other players by stripping people, dotting them up and vpe to aid in a bit of healing and there is nothing that will piss a druid, rogue or warrior off like me bubbling my buddy and no damage can get through for 4 hits. I do love that.

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Eh...I dunno. We have this disc/shadow priest on my server named funkmonk who is known for trashing whole groups of people. But its not just him, I've seen a shadow priest take on groups of 3. I remember one time watching one in halaa mind control somebody off of a cliff, psychic scream the other two and burst them down while they were running around.
Yes a top gear and well skilled shadow priest can do this. They are rare. Noxn who is the best shadow priest in this game basically quite because of the class unbalance. As good as he was, even he realized how hard it was to be a shadow priest. I don't complain about my class because I love the challenge. We are most likely hated more than any other class.
Any way I think my class is perfect as is.


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Have a look at the edit I made to the end of my last post
I read it. Thanks

I don't want a huge nerf given to druids. Just some slight adjustments to them will balance them out.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: List the WoW classes that need to be nerfed or buffed

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Warriors are not over powered. They have to have gear for everything. They have no natural way to do for them selves that druids can do. For a warrior to hit like a mac truck they have to work hard to get that gear. Yet when a druid gets the same gear they are almost god like.
Hmm...not really. Druids are very gear dependent. I myself carry 4 complete sets of gear on me at all times, and then mix and match a few for different purposes. I have a resto pve and pvp set, I have a feral pvp and feral tanking set, and then I use a combination of items from those sets to form a kitty dps set. In spite of that my dps is typically ranked 5 at best in 25 man content (although I could improve it if I wanted to, but I haven't ever really put any major focus on my dps gear.)

In fact if you look at druid pvp sets, there are 3 completely different sets for a druid, which means if we want to play all of our specs we have to do a LOT more grinding than a warrior would.

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Pallies were once up where you guys are but they can be handled now. The only other class that is just silly are hunters. They have an answer to everything I or any other class can throw at them. A hunter can run in, strip me of all my buffs, pop me out of shadow, stun me, be immune to my fear and unload massive damage on me.
Pally...bring it to near death, bubble n heal. Bring it to near death again, lay on hands. Then finally kill it. Basically just a class that you have to kill 3 times before it finally goes away. Most paladins seem to like to bubble and hearth before you ever get to the third time though. Most cowardly class in the game IMO.

Hunter...stupid easy class to kill, in fact I'd say this has to be the easiest. The good hunters try to use frost trap which is hard for me to powershift through, but feral charge gets them in the end. The crappy hunters try snake trap or explosive trap.

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Still I can kill most hunters because hunters like druids are crappy players. They sit behind their classes abilities but don't know how to really play the game.
I still to this day get tons of people, especially warriors and hunters, who I know whats going on their head is "Oh look a druid, that should be easy enough to kill," run after me and start hitting, only to have me turn around and wreck them.
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