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Old 08-13-08, 12:34 PM   #61
pawels133
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZicoTheTux View Post
Seriously: The driver has to be fixed but this "I have paid for this... XYZ" just does not work. No one ever said that. For KDE I'm currently using the nv driver and it works. For games I use xgame for a second session and it's awesome. That would be the easiest workaround.
But saying: "I have paid for this..." gives people right to complain :>. Some 'tricks' like using vesa etc. work in some way, but it's just parody that nvidia customers have to use those tricks. We're waiting more than half year for fixed drivers and such ignorance from nvidia side is just unacceptable (it looks like they have Linux users deep in their as..s) Of course some fanboys (NV guys maybe? and people who don't even know what we're complaining here about) don't see any problems with nvidia drivers.
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Old 08-13-08, 12:40 PM   #62
ZicoTheTux
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

I'm not saying it's wrong to address problems. I see those problems as well. But either I am too old to let me slow down by them (haha, got it? *slow down*) or mine are not as bad.

I just agree to the topic: This whole thing mutated to stupid bashing. This won't help in any way. My next card might be an ATI or whatever as well and I am also frustrated I even HAVE to take this step. But unfortunately this is what you have to expect by such a company:
They begin to fix stuff when enough ppl complain about. And before KDE4 was out I DOUNT NVidia gave a sh** about it... as said - you can'T expect more by monopoilists like big N and big A.
I remember ATi some years ago... and some released specs do not convince me it will be any better in the future...
So I keep my tricks and go around the binary stuff if necessary... this makes my life easier and stops me from bashing while I wait for the 177.x release.

If THAT is out, then we can see if I am still that quiet.
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Old 08-13-08, 04:32 PM   #63
interzoneuk
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Just to add my 2 pence ... (not cents - i'm British...)

As well as personally purchasing a Nvidia Geforce 2,3,4 and my present geforce 8500 - due to the quality of Linux nvidia drivers since 2003 - every single card has been better (in fps) on Linux than windows (various benchmarks prove this). I have generated Nvidia quite a bit of business.

I have also advised anyone whos asked (i am known as the local IT guru) to buy Nvidia - particularly people who i've convinced to move to Linux - this is been easy amongst my friends - many who have 'hippy ethics' and used computers pre MS domination - many many of whom are ex-amiga users that cannot bear using Windows - i.e - they grew up with a system that worked/didn't crash....)

However now that ATI have opened their drivers I am seriously considering getting their card in my next purchase .

I run multiple distros at work - this has an onboard Intel 915G card and its amazing - compiz / kde4 works really well - even though it's a lame card - also you do not need to reinstall the driver after every kernel upgrade/compile!!!!!

If Nvidia opensources their driver they would win the GPU war on linux easily..........
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Old 08-13-08, 04:40 PM   #64
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

with all the dying Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo laptops with nvidia graphic, Nvidia might be gone before the drivers are fixed ...
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Old 08-13-08, 04:48 PM   #65
ZicoTheTux
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Quote:
However now that ATI have opened their drivers I am seriously considering getting their card in my next purchase .
Quote:
However, at least until the merger with AMD was complete, ATI had no plans to release their drivers as open source code:

Proprietary, patented optimizations are part of the value we provide to our customers and we have no plans to release these drivers to open source. In addition, multimedia elements such as content protection must not, by their very nature, be allowed to go open source.
Quote:
Q4: Is complete driver source code available?
A4: Some of the technologies supported in our driver are protected by non-disclosure agreements with third parties, so we cannot legally release the complete source code to our driver. It is NOT open source. We do, however, include source code for the control panel and certain other public segments. We also actively assist developers in the Open Source community with their work, so if you absolutely require an open source driver for your graphics card, we can recommend using drivers from the DRI project, Utah-GLX project, or others.
*snap*
Sorry, from the official side, ATi also is no alternative for me.
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Old 08-13-08, 05:03 PM   #66
energyman76b
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

read again.

They provide DOCUMENTATION and MANPOWER to SUPPORT the development on opensource drivers.

They support the xf86-video-ati driver AND the xf86-video-radeonhd driver
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Old 08-13-08, 05:21 PM   #67
ZicoTheTux
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Okay, Touch'e:
Quote:
Sorry, from the official side, ATi also is no alternative for me, yet.
Fixed.
Maybe they get together a working driver in both 2D *and* 3D ... someday.

However - doesn't make *opened their drivers* right, nevertheless.
I will begin to s hit out gold to buy me such a card when I can use my OpenGL 2.0 apps with...

Btw:
Quote:
DOCUMENTATION
Wasn't that 2D part only?
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Old 08-13-08, 05:52 PM   #68
energyman76b
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

no

or yes.

You see, they first released the 2d part of the documentation, then after clearance from the lawyers 3d documentation for older cards, then for the r500 range. The r600 (later 2XXX and 3XXX cards) 3d documentation is still reviewed to open as much as possible to the public - but driver devs already got it under a NDA.

see for example:
http://emmes.livejournal.com/1783.html
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...600_soon&num=1
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Old 08-14-08, 07:00 AM   #69
mrn
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

They are in the process of opening up everything, but every part of it has to be run through their lawyers first, due to potentional use of patented code in there that they dont own.

They didn't just open source their driver, because that would be illegal for them to do, but they are in the process of opening up all documentation about the cards, and they have people working full time on helping build 100% open source drivers.

And the progress on those drivers is extremely fast

Checkout this link: http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
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Old 09-04-08, 10:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by txf View Post
It probably won't... The new fixes are to address the usage of the 3d core by the linux driver in order to accelerate xrender and desktop usage. The problem with nvidia has never been the 3d core driver which is reaaally fast. Games like UT use the 3d core through opengl and that is why on 3d benchmarks of games that run on both windows and linux are comparable for both oses.

Now for 2d desktop acceleration using xrender this part is not using platform agnostic code, it is using linux/x11 specific code which what they said they would be optimising. So basically what I'm saying is don't get your hopes up...
I just want to report that with the 177.70 drivers my performance in UT2k4 is now excellent. I believe there had to be a fix in the beta drivers. The game now runs flawlessly. Of course the desktop performance is also vastly improved with the new 2D performance enhancements. The beta 177.70 drivers are simply awesome as far as I can tell.
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Old 09-05-08, 03:24 AM   #71
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Default Re: Please stop that bashing...

I have a geforce 7300GT card and before I had a radeon 9600. Well, I always said that I would have never bought again ATI because I didn't like ATI drivers. I saw every day filckerings with compiz, I could not use xvideo extension and see a film and these very well known problems have never been solved. I think that even if you make me pay 1 dollar/euro for a card, it has to work. You have not to make me do the tester, your card MUST work because you are selling it and people are giving you money!
Now I think that nvidia is doing the same as ATI or even worse because they are not releasing hardware specs giving the possibility of an open source driver.
Well, I also think that who makes video cards must deserve the success.
So if I will notice that intel or ATI cards are working better and have a better driver, next time I will buy them, not nvidia. Currently I think the best is intel because the driver works perfectly (probably because it's open source), but nvidia has still some month to make me change idea, solving the problem of windows titlebar artifacts (it's there since 169.07!!!!) and some other thing like the screen saver / stand by.
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