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Old 02-01-09, 04:54 AM   #1
CaptNKILL
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Question Some questions about TVs and monitors...

TVs, cable and home theater setups are generally pretty foreign to me because my PC is pretty much my entire entertainment system. So I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can help to clear up.

First, What are the main fundamental differences between an LCD TV and an LCD computer monitor? You can get monitors that have component and HDMI inputs and you can get TVs that have DVI and VGA inputs, so they can technically be used for many of the same things... but what makes a TV all around better for being used as a TV and a monitor better for being used as a monitor? Are there visual or functional differences that apply to all monitors or all TVs?

Some of the obvious things that come to mind are that TVs have remotes and monitors generally don't. A common thing seems to be that TVs are 16:9 to fit with the 720P and 1080P resolutions, while monitors tend to have much higher 16:10 resolutions at much lower prices and screen sizes (for example a 24" 1920x1200 monitor vs a 32" 720P TV). Another big one is that TVs usually have cable inputs and tuners. This is a big one for many people, but then again, many TVs these days don't have these because of the abundance of external tuners and satellite\cable boxes.

But this brings up another big question.

I've only ever used or worked with analog TVs and plain old analog cable, so I have zero experience with cable boxes and external tuners. The thing that blows my mind is how TVs and DVR\DVDR recorders work with TV channels when they are just connected via standard video connections (like component or HDMI) through a cable box or tuner.

For example, why do TVs that don't have built in tuners have channel adjustment buttons on their remotes? And how do you record different channels on a DVR or DVD recorder that has no cable input? If you can only change the channel using your cable box then you must always have the same channel on your TV and your recorder? It seems kind of pointless this way, but my understanding of video connections (not TV cable) is that they are simply video and do not carry multiple channels, so it doesn't seem like it can work any other way.

Any input or sites regarding these things would be a big help.

I don't have the money to dabble in home theater setups and I watch no TV (I have internet but no TV service) but I'm getting way too rusty in this area and I need to catch up.

Thanks guys.
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Old 02-01-09, 09:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNKILL View Post
First, What are the main fundamental differences between an LCD TV and an LCD computer monitor? You can get monitors that have component and HDMI inputs and you can get TVs that have DVI and VGA inputs, so they can technically be used for many of the same things... but what makes a TV all around better for being used as a TV and a monitor better for being used as a monitor? Are there visual or functional differences that apply to all monitors or all TVs?
Here's the thing, a monitor is going to be more expensive because it's a much better panel than the ones that are in lcd tvs. Even though it is going to have the same inputs of a lcd tv, the resolution is often 2560x1600 as compared to 1920x1080(if it's even 1080p). Since the resolution is so much higher for the monitors, the pixel pitch is often much much smaller (again a better panel). Lcd tvs will often have integrated tuners, since that is their intended purpose. Other than that, the only other real difference is that monitors are typically 60hz whereas you can find lcd tvs that will do 120hz (some even higher). The reason for the 120hz is "motion blur", usually an accommodation to the slower response time of lcd tvs. All in all, I think the answer to your question is a monitor is a monitor because it's a much better panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNKILL View Post
Some of the obvious things that come to mind are that TVs have remotes and monitors generally don't. A common thing seems to be that TVs are 16:9 to fit with the 720P and 1080P resolutions, while monitors tend to have much higher 16:10 resolutions at much lower prices and screen sizes (for example a 24" 1920x1200 monitor vs a 32" 720P TV). Another big one is that TVs usually have cable inputs and tuners. This is a big one for many people, but then again, many TVs these days don't have these because of the abundance of external tuners and satellite\cable boxes.

But this brings up another big question.

I've only ever used or worked with analog TVs and plain old analog cable, so I have zero experience with cable boxes and external tuners. The thing that blows my mind is how TVs and DVR\DVDR recorders work with TV channels when they are just connected via standard video connections (like component or HDMI) through a cable box or tuner.

For example, why do TVs that don't have built in tuners have channel adjustment buttons on their remotes? And how do you record different channels on a DVR or DVD recorder that has no cable input? If you can only change the channel using your cable box then you must always have the same channel on your TV and your recorder? It seems kind of pointless this way, but my understanding of video connections (not TV cable) is that they are simply video and do not carry multiple channels, so it doesn't seem like it can work any other way.

Any input or sites regarding these things would be a big help.
External tuners (sat, cable, dvr, etc) do handle the channels, so your above question is kind of confusing. I think what you are referring to are OTA (over the air) HD. Which can be explained a little here. I know a buddy that has one, and his "channel adjustment buttons" are used to tune to the specific frequencies of the channels, ie channel 13 may be 12.8. So he adjusts that when he selects channel 13, that the tv tunes to the 12.8 frequency.

Again, this last part is a little confusing. Not exactly sure what you're talking about, but the above may help. If you are questioning remotes, they are usually packaged to work with many different models in a series. So just because one model doesn't have a tuner, doesn't mean that none in the series do. As far as dvi-d, hdmi, component, composite, etc only carrying one signal, you are correct there. The tv doesn't change the channel, the external tuner does.
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Old 02-01-09, 11:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNKILL View Post
TVs, cable and home theater setups are generally pretty foreign to me because my PC is pretty much my entire entertainment system. So I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can help to clear up.

First, What are the main fundamental differences between an LCD TV and an LCD computer monitor? You can get monitors that have component and HDMI inputs and you can get TVs that have DVI and VGA inputs, so they can technically be used for many of the same things... but what makes a TV all around better for being used as a TV and a monitor better for being used as a monitor? Are there visual or functional differences that apply to all monitors or all TVs?

Some of the obvious things that come to mind are that TVs have remotes and monitors generally don't. A common thing seems to be that TVs are 16:9 to fit with the 720P and 1080P resolutions, while monitors tend to have much higher 16:10 resolutions at much lower prices and screen sizes (for example a 24" 1920x1200 monitor vs a 32" 720P TV). Another big one is that TVs usually have cable inputs and tuners. This is a big one for many people, but then again, many TVs these days don't have these because of the abundance of external tuners and satellite\cable boxes.

But this brings up another big question.

I've only ever used or worked with analog TVs and plain old analog cable, so I have zero experience with cable boxes and external tuners. The thing that blows my mind is how TVs and DVR\DVDR recorders work with TV channels when they are just connected via standard video connections (like component or HDMI) through a cable box or tuner.

For example, why do TVs that don't have built in tuners have channel adjustment buttons on their remotes? And how do you record different channels on a DVR or DVD recorder that has no cable input? If you can only change the channel using your cable box then you must always have the same channel on your TV and your recorder? It seems kind of pointless this way, but my understanding of video connections (not TV cable) is that they are simply video and do not carry multiple channels, so it doesn't seem like it can work any other way.

Any input or sites regarding these things would be a big help.

I don't have the money to dabble in home theater setups and I watch no TV (I have internet but no TV service) but I'm getting way too rusty in this area and I need to catch up.

Thanks guys.
I think I can explain to you how a DVR (with a tuner) works. It is basically a small computer with a tv tuner in it. You change channels on the DVR and then it usually outputs the signal via component or HDMI to your tv, just like you would do on your computer. So the signal comes in from your provider, and then is converted for type of output you need. One way to think of it is streaming a youtube video. It streams from your internet connection, then is converted into a video signal on your graphics card to be displayed on the tv. That is pretty much what a digital DVR is doing. The tv itself can't change channels, it must be done on the DVR. The reason why a tv "monitor" might have buttons 0-9 to change channels is only so it can be programmed to work another device. They really won't serve a purpose on a tv without a tuner in it. (Maybe setting the clock... )

If your DVR doesn't have a tuner then it has to rely on an external tuner like a cable box. Once again, the cable box can tune to whatever station you want, but it will only output 1 signal, which is whatever channel you happen to be on. Just like the tv they are usually connected via component/VGA or HDMI/DVI. The video connection does only carry 1 signal at a time just like you said. I can't think of a good way to explain it but basically the signal doesn't directly pass through the tuner to the device. Only the tuner knows how to pick up a signal from the coax cable coming into your house. It has to process the data coming in and turn it into something that a TV/monitor/DVR can understand. Not only does the tuner pick up the video signal, but it also needs to take the audio signal and convert that for use by your speakers. You can't simply hook up your speakers to the wire and have sound come out of it either. I have a better analogy for that. You have a CD that you put into a cd-rom drive. It contains several tracks of sound. The computer can "tune" to the right track and uses the sound card to convert the audio into something your speakers can play. The speakers can only output what they are given from the pc.
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Old 02-01-09, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

Thanks guys, that answers my questions.

I knew how tuners and DVRs worked for the most part, and I assumed that a cable box just took in the cable and output a video signal... but it just seemed too much like a step backwards so I had to be sure. I guess if someone wants to buy a DVR or DVD Recorder (with no tuner... like most of the ones wal-mart sells) these days they have to make sure they have multiple cable boxes (or possibly a box with multiple tuners) if they want to watch one channel and record another. That's pretty lame IMO. I'm just surprised that that is the direction the technology has gone.

As far as the monitor vs TV thing. Are there any significant differences in overall brightness, contrast or viewing angles?

Also, I haven't seen an LCD TV hooked up to a PC. Does a TV generally give a sharp picture with a straight VGA or HDMI signal from a PC? Are there any real draw backs to doing this other than the lower resolution? How about color reproduction? Some TN panel monitors actually have very accurate colors now.

Sorry for all the questions. I've looked around the net a bit and I keep finding the general "I like biggar screen with the 1080 PEEES so TV is bettar" comments.
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Old 02-01-09, 02:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

On my Directv HD DVR I can watch one channel while recording another. It has 2 inputs on the back coming from the satellite dish but they have a new switch (SWM) that allows one cable to be run to the box and still watch one channel while it records another. To go even farther I can actually record 2 different shows while watching a show I recorded earlier if I want.
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Old 02-01-09, 02:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

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On my Directv HD DVR I can watch one channel while recording another. It has 2 inputs on the back coming from the satellite dish but they have a new switch (SWM) that allows one cable to be run to the box and still watch one channel while it records another. To go even farther I can actually record 2 different shows while watching a show I recorded earlier if I want.
Yeah, I figured there were devices with multiple tuners that could do stuff like this.

This brings up another question too...

How the hell does picture in picture work? Does a TV with PiP just pull two different signals from a single cable line?

And does this mean that PiP is on the way out since external tuners are being used?
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Old 02-01-09, 03:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

On my tv, PIP works by showing different inputs on the screen. For example I could watch Directv and have a DVD in the corner as PIP or I could play the XBOX 360 and have Directv in the corner in PIP. I could then swap them around or whatever. I never use it and it is pretty worthless if you ask me.
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Old 02-01-09, 04:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

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On my tv, PIP works by showing different inputs on the screen. For example I could watch Directv and have a DVD in the corner as PIP or I could play the XBOX 360 and have Directv in the corner in PIP. I could then swap them around or whatever. I never use it and it is pretty worthless if you ask me.
Yeah PiP is pretty worthless.

I just remember it being used when there are a couple different sports games on at the same time. That's pretty much a thing of the past if you have digital cable and a cable box.
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Old 02-01-09, 10:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

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Thanks guys, that answers my questions.

I knew how tuners and DVRs worked for the most part, and I assumed that a cable box just took in the cable and output a video signal... but it just seemed too much like a step backwards so I had to be sure. I guess if someone wants to buy a DVR or DVD Recorder (with no tuner... like most of the ones wal-mart sells) these days they have to make sure they have multiple cable boxes (or possibly a box with multiple tuners) if they want to watch one channel and record another. That's pretty lame IMO. I'm just surprised that that is the direction the technology has gone.

As far as the monitor vs TV thing. Are there any significant differences in overall brightness, contrast or viewing angles?

Also, I haven't seen an LCD TV hooked up to a PC. Does a TV generally give a sharp picture with a straight VGA or HDMI signal from a PC? Are there any real draw backs to doing this other than the lower resolution? How about color reproduction? Some TN panel monitors actually have very accurate colors now.

Sorry for all the questions. I've looked around the net a bit and I keep finding the general "I like biggar screen with the 1080 PEEES so TV is bettar" comments.
All of the LCD Tv's that I've had hooked up to a pc have had pretty crisp pictures. They look just as good as a regular lcd monitor IMO as long as your at the proper viewing distance. (IE not 12" away from a 37" tv) I have had Westinghouse, Toshiba, and Sharp tvs all hooked to a pc before. (some 720p some 1080p) The Westinghouse models actually have ATI Xilleon hardware in them. Color reproduction is very good as well. Just make sure that you turn down the insane saturation that most TV's come with now.

I would agree about the whole issue with using tuners. The main problem is that your cablebox or satellite box use some proprietary hardware like Cablecards, so even if you did have a tuner in your DVR you'd probably still need a Set Top Box in order to get all of your programming. I really don't know why a standard wasn't laid out before digital TV was brought to market.
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Old 02-03-09, 06:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

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Here's the thing, a monitor is going to be more expensive because it's a much better panel than the ones that are in lcd tvs. Even though it is going to have the same inputs of a lcd tv, the resolution is often 2560x1600 as compared to 1920x1080(if it's even 1080p). Since the resolution is so much higher for the monitors, the pixel pitch is often much much smaller (again a better panel). Lcd tvs will often have integrated tuners, since that is their intended purpose. Other than that, the only other real difference is that monitors are typically 60hz whereas you can find lcd tvs that will do 120hz (some even higher). The reason for the 120hz is "motion blur", usually an accommodation to the slower response time of lcd tvs. All in all, I think the answer to your question is a monitor is a monitor because it's a much better panel.
I wouldn't call PC monitors "better." Yes, they have a smaller dot pitch, because they are typically sold smaller in size. PC LCD monitors are usually 6 or 8-bit. Modern LCDs are minimum 8-bit, with the better ones today being 10-bit. Samsung 6+ and modern Sony Bravia are 12-bit dithered down to 10-bit output. PC Monitors offer better clarity due to being equal or higher resolution in a smaller size. HD televisions offer better color depth, range, and black/white levels. They're both great for their intended purposes. A PC Monitor is better for a PC desktop and fast paced gaming, but I'd always prefer an HDTV for movies.
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Old 02-10-09, 04:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

I'm considering grabbing one of these to replace our old 27" fat-ass TV.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236047

We don't have cable or any kind of TV and we don't plan on getting it any time soon. We mainly use an HTPC and a DVD player, though with component inputs this monitor should work fine with a cable box if we ever decide to get one.

I'm not real super picky about the picture quality since we're used to a standard definition CRT TV with big faded\discolored spots on it.

The reasons I like it:

Multiple inputs (component, HDMI, DVI and VGA)
1920x1200 and 1080P capable
It costs $100 less than a 26" 720P TV and $250 less than other 1080P monitors with similar features
Great reviews

Some more info about the screen:
http://www.gadgetreview.com/2008/10/...6h-vw246h.html

What do you guys think? $319 after rebate with free shipping for a 26" 1080P capable screen?

If there is a better choice out there for someone on a tight budget, let me know.
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Last edited by CaptNKILL; 02-11-09 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 02-10-09, 05:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Some questions about TVs and monitors...

You can probably get it to work fine.
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