And the fastest browser is ... IE8 :) - Page 4

LovingSticky · 03-17-09, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor1182

as the box model of IE has its own set of rules from the others.

Not true. Internet Explorer has "quirks" mode (non-standard) and "standards" mode, triggered by particular DOCTYPE. If you use e.g. this DOCTYPE, box model is the same across IE, FF, Safari and Opera, thus only single CSS is needed:

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

or this one:

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC '-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN' 'http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd'>

Hacks are sometimes necessary for IE6 from 2001, if your design is really wild. But most of the time this simple (and W3C valid) "hack" will suffice (being processed by IE6 only), there are no hacks necessary for IE7 and above:

Code:

* html CSSCODE {}

Javascript is also not a problem, as jQuery (or Mootools or whatever you prefer) take care of all the differences.

Good webdesigners have it really easy in 2009

thor1182 · 03-17-09, 02:01 PM

I think this is getting past a useful discussion. This could go on forever because both sides are firm in their beliefs. If you think IE is the best thing since sliced bread, that's fine as long as you are not one of those web devs that keeps infecting the web with sites that only work right in IE.

LovingSticky · 03-17-09, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor1182

If you think IE is the best thing since sliced bread,

You obviously did not get it

IE6 is obsolete, by current standards. But it cannot by judged by current, 2009, standards, yet many people do it. There is -no- reason to complain about IE6 (being obsolete), as it was clearly the best when launched.

IE8 is perfect, even by current standards. It comes with great new features, speed, innovative UI.

But you would not complain about Ford Model T (=IE6) not having safety belts when all modern cars have it, would you?

thor1182 · 03-17-09, 02:25 PM

actually complaining about IE7 and IE8... as they are not stands compliant.

go take the acid3 test and tell me how far you get before the browser fails.

They wasted time with some of these new features instead of spending a lot of time focusing on standards compliance with its rendering engine. But hey it(IE8) passes Acid 2 now, that's something.

I know there are newer builds out there of IE8 than the one I have with Win7 build 7000, but it still has a ways to go before it has room to talk about standards compliance. MS is at least making an effort to try and catch up, but they are not there yet.

LovingSticky · 03-17-09, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor1182

go take the acid3 test and tell me how far you get before the browser fails.

Well, you had no idea about DOCTYPE modifying IE behaviour between "standards" and "quirks" mode and you have no idea what simple number from Acid3 test means for webdesigners.

I will tell you. Precisely NOTHING. That number is a pure marketing for uneducates masses. That's all. It tests some CSS3 na JS stuff which is not even recommended yet by W3C, as it has still draft status. Marketing for the crowd, nothing else...

thor1182 · 03-17-09, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovingSticky

Well, you had no idea about DOCTYPE modifying IE behaviour between "standards" and "quirks" mode and you have no idea what simple number from Acid3 test means for webdesigners.

I will tell you. Precisely NOTHING. That number is a pure marketing for uneducates masses. That's all.

You assume a bit much there. I do know they exist, but there wouldn't be a need for them if it was more standards compliant.

The acid tests where a quick example to highlight the fact that doc type or no doctype, IE7 does not behave like its supposed to. When they where working on it there where a lot of Developers out there trying to push MS to put more focus on standards compliance, and they decent job, but nothing to brag about.

As a web dev who stares at VS 2008 most of the time nothing bothers me more than having to spend time getting the html rendering of .NET's code to behave the same cross browsers. Of course when you have a html/css guru on staff they can fight with browser oddities and leave the dev's to spend more time on the server side code.

thor1182 · 03-17-09, 03:04 PM

and actually it does tell you something, it tells you what new features you can use in the web standards to simplify design html code, and also add new design elements. Designers come up with some interesting things, and then when you sit down to look up the standards on how to make it happen, nothing like a long list of "won't work in IE" to ruin your day.

The day of using tables for layout is gone. IE has more issues than the others with Div based layouts. Also get into more AJAX applications that have a lot more dynamic interaction that start getting into some "fun" situations with float dialog divs showing up under elements in IE because its way of rendering z-index is messed up.

Sean_W · 03-17-09, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovingSticky

I do webdesign for living, use IE6 (for testing), IE7, IE8, FF3, Opera 9.6, Safari 3 and Google Chrome 2 daily. And yes, all my websites are XHTML 1.0 STRICT compliant, without resorting to any hacks (except sometimes conditional CSS for IE6 from 2001). In Javascript, libraries like jQuery do all the hard work anyway on compatibility

My current browser of choice is IE7 + IE7Pro extension (adds functionality of 10+ Firefox plugins) + Roboform (excellent tool for different passwords for each website and for forms filling) + IE Developer Toolbar (Microsoft) + IE DebugBar (Core Services).

IE7 has sufficiently capable core, and UI rocks. I would use IE8 (much faster), but IE7Pro is (yet) not compatible with it, Firefox is too slow (use it sometimes because of excellent Firebug extension though), Safari is great in speed, but misses AdBlocking, mouse gestures, advanced dev tools.

Microsoft does not make bad browsers.

They have, in fact, great internet technology. I would choose Live.com Custom Domains over Google Apps (for your domain) anytime, same Silverlight 2 vs. Flash 10.

The only real complain about Microsoft is we should not wait for IE7 till 2006. In 2004, I was using Mozilla, later Opera. IE7 should be here by 2004 (latest).

But maybe they had some "political" (EU ruling) reasons for this delay... With Firefox having 30% of the market, any possible "fine" should be much lower

IE8 shows Microsoft is perfectly capable writing the best browser, if they want (or dev team is "allowed to")

Yes, you can claim they don't make bad software but their interoperability is pathetic. This in many peoples eyes IS bad software design.

Redeemed · 03-09-10, 04:04 PM

Okay, can't find the official IE 8 thread so I'll just use this one.

Just noticed that when you have something downloading and IE is minimized, it'll show the progress of the download on the minimized window on the taskbar.

I find this to be really handy instead of having to open the download window to check the status.

Win 7 and IE8 FTW!

ViN86 · 03-09-10, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Okay, can't find the official IE 8 thread so I'll just use this one.

Just noticed that when you have something downloading and IE is minimized, it'll show the progress of the download on the minimized window on the taskbar.

I find this to be really handy instead of having to open the download window to check the status.

Win 7 and IE8 FTW!

That's just Win 7 taskbar integration. A lot of programs have it. If you copy/paste files it will show the progress there. Also Steam downloads will show the progress there as well.

Redeemed · 03-09-10, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViN86

That's just Win 7 taskbar integration. A lot of programs have it. If you copy/paste files it will show the progress there. Also Steam downloads will show the progress there as well.

err... wrong thread ViN- this thread is about IE8 *not* Win7. Keep your Win7 lust in the appropriate threads plz.

kthx

- so it's Win7 that makes IE8 so awesome then- is that what you're saying?

ViN86 · 03-09-10, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemed

err... wrong thread ViN- this thread is about IE8 *not* Win7. Keep your Win7 lust in the appropriate threads plz.

kthx

- so it's Win7 that makes IE8 so awesome then- is that what you're saying?

Haha yes. Yes I am.

03-17-09, 02:01 PM	#38
thor1182 Spelling Expert?!? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Indy, IN Posts: 812	Re: And the fastest browser is ... IE8 :) I think this is getting past a useful discussion. This could go on forever because both sides are firm in their beliefs. If you think IE is the best thing since sliced bread, that's fine as long as you are not one of those web devs that keeps infecting the web with sites that only work right in IE. __________________ -"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling

03-17-09, 02:25 PM	#40
thor1182 Spelling Expert?!? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Indy, IN Posts: 812	Re: And the fastest browser is ... IE8 :) actually complaining about IE7 and IE8... as they are not stands compliant. go take the acid3 test and tell me how far you get before the browser fails. They wasted time with some of these new features instead of spending a lot of time focusing on standards compliance with its rendering engine. But hey it(IE8) passes Acid 2 now, that's something. I know there are newer builds out there of IE8 than the one I have with Win7 build 7000, but it still has a ways to go before it has room to talk about standards compliance. MS is at least making an effort to try and catch up, but they are not there yet. __________________ -"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling

03-17-09, 03:04 PM	#43
thor1182 Spelling Expert?!? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Indy, IN Posts: 812	Re: And the fastest browser is ... IE8 :) and actually it does tell you something, it tells you what new features you can use in the web standards to simplify design html code, and also add new design elements. Designers come up with some interesting things, and then when you sit down to look up the standards on how to make it happen, nothing like a long list of "won't work in IE" to ruin your day. The day of using tables for layout is gone. IE has more issues than the others with Div based layouts. Also get into more AJAX applications that have a lot more dynamic interaction that start getting into some "fun" situations with float dialog divs showing up under elements in IE because its way of rendering z-index is messed up. __________________ -"Aqua 2": Water Cooled Intel i7 960, 12 GB DDR3 PC 12800, 3x Intel X-25-M 80 GB SSD RAID 0, SATA 1.5TB WD, EVGA GeForce GTX 470 Supper Clocked Water Cooled, ASUS P6X58D, Corsair 800D w/ Koolance cooling

03-09-10, 04:04 PM	#45
Redeemed Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 17,986	Re: And the fastest browser is ... IE8 :) Okay, can't find the official IE 8 thread so I'll just use this one. Just noticed that when you have something downloading and IE is minimized, it'll show the progress of the download on the minimized window on the taskbar. I find this to be really handy instead of having to open the download window to check the status. Win 7 and IE8 FTW!