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Old 05-28-09, 12:02 PM   #1
MilkToastHoney
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Default Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Currently I'm using 8400GS cards, which (still) have the performance issue. While the driver is getting better compared to last year version, but compiz animation still jerky and stutter specially if I have more than 3 or 4 windows opened. I've tried using all suggestion in any thread I can found (something like adjusting the PixmapCacheRoundSize, nopat, xorg.conf), but still no go.

Well... after years waiting for the “perfect” driver, now I give up and consider downgrading my 8400GS to 7xxx series card, possibly the 7200GS or 7300GS (it cost about $23-25 in my country).

Before I buy this cards, I need suggestion and input from you, because, I don't want to have the same experience as with the 8400GS . I have some questions about 7200GS/7300GS:
  • Do these cards support 1680x1050 resolution?
  • Do these cards have same performance issue as the 8xxx series?
  • Do these cards have any existing problems?
  • Do these cards able to run compiz's effects smoothly?
  • Do these cards able to run compiz's blur effect smoothly?
  • Do these cards able to run Warcraft TFT? (I only play DotA, occasionally )

These is my rig specs:
  • Q6600 @2.4Ghz
  • Intel DP35DP
  • 4GB DDR2

I appreciate your time giving any input and suggestion. Thank you.
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Old 05-28-09, 01:27 PM   #2
mooninite
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Save up $25 more and buy a 9500 or 9600 GT. A 7200 or 7300 is extremely slow. It will be worse than your 8400. They are 2D budget cards. Sure, the hardware specs say they can do 3D, but what you end up getting is a 2D slide show.

You have a decent system and want to throw a cheap video card in it, and then complain about how slow everything is? Spend a little more on a decent card. It seems you are not in the USA, but this deal (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121267) shows you the kind of card you need. That 9500 will perform like a 7950GT, to give you a comparison you might understand. All for $50.
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Old 05-28-09, 07:08 PM   #3
MilkToastHoney
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Hi mooninite, thank you very much for the response.

The 9500GT looks like a pretty decent cards for me, the very same specs you gave cost about $113 in here. That's out of my budget. The only cards I may afford is the DA 9500GT, with only 800Mhz Memory Clock, and 550Mhz Engine Clock.

I read some review about the 7200/7300 before, they seems can run the Vista Aero without problems, and so is my 8400, that's why I'm considered to buy such low end cards. I only need desktop cards (for compiz), not gaming. And I keep thinking, the bad performance culprit in Linux is because of the drivers, because I had no problem running Aero using this very same rig.

BTW, does the 9xxx series cards have same driver's performance issue as the 8xxx series cards?

Thanks.
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Old 05-28-09, 10:15 PM   #4
mooninite
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkToastHoney View Post
BTW, does the 9xxx series cards have same driver's performance issue as the 8xxx series cards?
I run that same 9500GT, a 9650M GT, and a 9800 GTX+ and I've never seen compiz, vdpau, or 3D issues. However, I have a 8600 GT at work, and I don't see any problems with it either. The first cards run the 185.xx driver, and the 8600 is running the 180.xx driver. I also have a 5200 FX (173.xx driver) and see "sluggish" compiz performance, but I still use it.

I have a 7200 card in case you are wondering. It's slow as sin in everything. You'd be right back on this forum saying "180xx driver 7 series performance sucks" if you bought one yourself. I also have a 7950GT. Ran compiz and 3D fine. I bought the 9800GTX+ to replace it for VDPAU reasons,.

Expect slow performance from the bottom line cards. Switching around from one series or the other won't help you. Compiz uses a GL context (3D) of your video card. You need a fast card with at least 128-bit wide memory buses. Buying a low-end card with 64-bit buses isn't going to fix your problem. If you must have a 7 series, at least buy a 7600 or 7950. Hopefully they are still cheap for you... since they haven't been made in a couple of years.
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Old 05-29-09, 04:38 AM   #5
MilkToastHoney
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Hi mooninite,

I just came home from the computer mall in my town, and saw some offer for 9600GT card, here's the specs.
It is cost about $104, and I just thought, "Okay, let's spend some money for nice GPU sometimes". And I bought it. It was way beyond my budget, but I think it would worth the money.

Now I just done replacing the old card with this one.
Compiz animation feels a lot smoother, but it still jerky when I have more than 3 or 4 windows opened. Well, I think it is the driver in the first place that needs to be fixed, not the hardware, lol.

Here's some shots:




I have some question about this new card, the specs says:
- Memory Clock: 1800Mhz
But the nvidia-settings shows only 900Mhz, any ideas?

mooninite, I appreciate your detailed suggestion and inputs, thank you very much.
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Old 05-29-09, 04:48 AM   #6
Dragoran
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkToastHoney View Post
Hi mooninite,

I just came home from the computer mall in my town, and saw some offer for 9600GT card, here's the specs.
It is cost about $104, and I just thought, "Okay, let's spend some money for nice GPU sometimes". And I bought it. It was way beyond my budget, but I think it would worth the money.

Now I just done replacing the old card with this one.
Compiz animation feels a lot smoother, but it still jerky when I have more than 3 or 4 windows opened. Well, I think it is the driver in the first place that needs to be fixed, not the hardware, lol.

Here's some shots:




I have some question about this new card, the specs says:
- Memory Clock: 1800Mhz
But the nvidia-settings shows only 900Mhz, any ideas?

mooninite, I appreciate your detailed suggestion and inputs, thank you very much.
900Mhz is the real clock speed, 1800Mhz is the effective clock speed.
There are just two different ways to report the clock speed. For marketing reasons most vendors just display the effective clock speed.

So conclusion is: Nothing is wrong with your clock speed.
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Old 05-29-09, 04:58 AM   #7
MilkToastHoney
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoran View Post
900Mhz is the real clock speed, 1800Mhz is the effective clock speed.
There are just two different ways to report the clock speed. For marketing reasons most vendors just display the effective clock speed.

So conclusion is: Nothing is wrong with your clock speed.
I see, would this because of DDR = Double Data Rate?
So, each clock would transfer two data (?), so 900 x 2 = 1800?
That's make sense...

Anyway, I'm happy if there's nothing wrong. Dragoran, thanks for the clarification.
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Old 05-29-09, 09:00 PM   #8
mooninite
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkToastHoney View Post
Hi mooninite,

Now I just done replacing the old card with this one.
Compiz animation feels a lot smoother, but it still jerky when I have more than 3 or 4 windows opened. Well, I think it is the driver in the first place that needs to be fixed, not the hardware, lol.
Do you have refresh rate forced to match your real refresh in Compiz?

Do you have "detect refresh rate" disabled in Compiz?

Those two settings will greatly effect your Compiz experience. Plus, turn on VSync in the nVidia tool.

I'm using my 9650M GT at the moment, with multiple windows up, refresh at 60Hz, Compiz forced at 60Hz, detect refresh rate off, and all window movement is silky smooth.
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Old 05-30-09, 12:40 AM   #9
MilkToastHoney
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooninite View Post
Do you have refresh rate forced to match your real refresh in Compiz?

Do you have "detect refresh rate" disabled in Compiz?

Those two settings will greatly effect your Compiz experience. Plus, turn on VSync in the nVidia tool.

I'm using my 9650M GT at the moment, with multiple windows up, refresh at 60Hz, Compiz forced at 60Hz, detect refresh rate off, and all window movement is silky smooth.
Currently I have "Sync to VBlank" enabled in CCSM and nvidia-settings, 60Hz refresh rate in CCSM and "Detect Refresh Rate" is disabled.
If I disable the "Sync to VBlank", I got a lot of tearing when moving any windows.

I need to revised my statement, the jerky animation is the minimize/restore animation, it happened sometimes, mostly with Eclipse.

Anyway, do you apply custom configuration in xorg.conf, or custom nvidia-settings value (PixmapCacheRoundSizeKB, etc)?

Thanks.
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Old 05-30-09, 10:28 PM   #10
mooninite
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkToastHoney View Post
Anyway, do you apply custom configuration in xorg.conf, or custom nvidia-settings value (PixmapCacheRoundSizeKB, etc)?
I do not have any custom configuration options. If you have any and are using the 180.xx or 185.xx driver, take them out as you no longer need them.
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Old 05-31-09, 10:55 PM   #11
MilkToastHoney
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Default Re: Some questions before downgrading to 7xxx series cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooninite View Post
I do not have any custom configuration options. If you have any and are using the 180.xx or 185.xx driver, take them out as you no longer need them.
When using the 8400GS, I used to have the "nvidia-settings -q PixmapCacheRoundSizeKB=<some_amount>" load at login and it did smooth some compiz effect, even for a while.
But with the new card, I don't feel any difference setting any values, thanks for the advice.

Best Regard,

MTH.
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