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Old 06-08-09, 11:01 PM   #61
Xion X2
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

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Originally Posted by SirPauly View Post
I just don't agree about "never" increase FPS because it does when some may look at the GPU vs CPU context.
He's right, though. Enabling PhysX does not boost performance. It's the way you choose to run it that has the impact (CPU or GPU.) But neither one of these define PhysX; they are simply an avenue of use for it.

Example: Take a game FPS w/o PhysX enabled and then a game FPS w/ PhysX enabled. Whether you're running it on the CPU or GPU doesn't matter. You're not going to get better performance on the machine running PhysX than on the machine that's not running it (assuming all hardware is equal.)
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Old 06-09-09, 04:52 AM   #62
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

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Originally Posted by Xion X2 View Post
He's right, though. Enabling PhysX does not boost performance. It's the way you choose to run it that has the impact (CPU or GPU.) But neither one of these define PhysX; they are simply an avenue of use for it.

Example: Take a game FPS w/o PhysX enabled and then a game FPS w/ PhysX enabled. Whether you're running it on the CPU or GPU doesn't matter. You're not going to get better performance on the machine running PhysX than on the machine that's not running it (assuming all hardware is equal.)
But the context was defined with this example: If one uses GPU PhysX compared to CPU PhysX -- one gains FPS and a far cry from saying "never" gain FPS in a blanket or absolute form. I understand your point but don't agree in absolutes or blanket forms.

Good to see you post Xion and hope things are going well for ya.
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Old 06-09-09, 05:50 AM   #63
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

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Originally Posted by SirPauly View Post
But the context was defined with this example: If one uses GPU PhysX compared to CPU PhysX -- one gains FPS and a far cry from saying "never" gain FPS in a blanket or absolute form. I understand your point but don't agree in absolutes or blanket forms.

Good to see you post Xion and hope things are going well for ya.
I see what you mean, but strictly it would depend on exactly how much the CPU was stressed before and how much resources would be taken from the GPU.
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Old 06-09-09, 06:00 AM   #64
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

If there is a dedicated physX gpu in the next generation consoles then we will benefit if not there aren't any PC only devs left to talk about. So it is a waste of time, and money.
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Old 06-09-09, 11:47 AM   #65
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

It might not be fully implemented in all the games you want it in... but it by no means sucks. I've played around with it running on my gtx 260 while it's doing the rendering, but shortly (whenever I find the time) i'm installing an 8600 GT to do the physx work and leaving the 260 on graphics only duty....

Give it time and it will mature.... compare nvidia physics to the aegia physx card and it's implementation way back in '05.... it was a wash compared to what it is now.... pci card that's hardly better than a 6200... if it was better, the way nvidia is doing it is amazing and it's just a few steps off from microsoft's vision for dx11 supporting api physics.... which surprise, means ati and nvidia cards can use it assuming they work the cards to.

Physx is a stepping stone into DX11 which is where we want to be as far as universal api physx goes
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Old 06-09-09, 05:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

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It might not be fully implemented in all the games you want it in... but it by no means sucks. I've played around with it running on my gtx 260 while it's doing the rendering, but shortly (whenever I find the time) i'm installing an 8600 GT to do the physx work and leaving the 260 on graphics only duty....

Give it time and it will mature.... compare nvidia physics to the aegia physx card and it's implementation way back in '05.... it was a wash compared to what it is now.... pci card that's hardly better than a 6200... if it was better, the way nvidia is doing it is amazing and it's just a few steps off from microsoft's vision for dx11 supporting api physics.... which surprise, means ati and nvidia cards can use it assuming they work the cards to.

Physx is a stepping stone into DX11 which is where we want to be as far as universal api physx goes


Agreed 100%.

So many silly things have been said in this thread, but the bottom line is, it is undeniably an ADVANCE, and though some may think that it could give the person that can afford a card dedicated to PhysX an unfair advantage, what is so new about that concept?

It's ALWAYS been my experience that the more $$$ I dump into building a machine, the better it handles what I toss at it. In this case, I needed a new video card anyway and it's just a nice bonus that I can use the old one to offload PhysX to, so hopefully this technology will take off and be adopted more widespread.
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Old 06-10-09, 09:49 AM   #67
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

The thing about increasing speeds. Is you have to have a workload to compare it with to begin with. Look at 3dmark Vantage. Using CPU PhysX is alot slower than GPU PhysX.

But when you add Physic effects to something that doesn't exist you are adding additional workload. Anyway for those who complain about "PhysX" effecting their bottom end framerates at high end resses. Thats the time you want to add a dedicated PhysX processor. So it doesnt detract from your high end.
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Old 06-13-09, 07:43 PM   #68
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

NM. Double post. Mods please delete/
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Old 06-13-09, 07:51 PM   #69
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

Well the dedicated PsyX processor is one of the reason why the NVidia PnysX is going to loose to Havok Physics.

The other reason is, it is NV proprietary technology. Does NVIDIA think that AMD and Intel is going help sell more NV hardware?

Anyway this article says it better than I can.
The Inevitable Bleak Outcome of NVIDIA's CUDA + PhysX Strategy
Tuesday, May 12, 2009

There is another on going pool at TechPowerUp about buying decision and it doesn't even address the question about the need for buying a "dedicated PhysX processor". I think if it was pointed out the numbers would be even lower.


There are many more Titles that use Havok Products and more Upcoming Releases.

And lastly it looks like AMD and Intel will unite against NVIDIA PhysX
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Old 06-13-09, 10:59 PM   #70
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

So... what is the next big phyx game?
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Old 06-14-09, 10:48 AM   #71
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
Well the dedicated PsyX processor is one of the reason why the NVidia PnysX is going to loose to Havok Physics.

The other reason is, it is NV proprietary technology. Does NVIDIA think that AMD and Intel is going help sell more NV hardware?

Anyway this article says it better than I can.
The Inevitable Bleak Outcome of NVIDIA's CUDA + PhysX Strategy
Tuesday, May 12, 2009

There is another on going pool at TechPowerUp about buying decision and it doesn't even address the question about the need for buying a "dedicated PhysX processor". I think if it was pointed out the numbers would be even lower.


There are many more Titles that use Havok Products and more Upcoming Releases.

And lastly it looks like AMD and Intel will unite against NVIDIA PhysX


that's the thing i was trying to say. YES physx will fail, it's a single vendor solution, that won't win market support.

but, who cares if it fails, the cuda backbone of being able to compute on graphics cards is undoubtedly more powerful and useful than for doing physx calculations alone.

If i'm not mistaken DX11 will have a uniformed api for dealing with physics calculations, so whether it's physx or havok it doesn't matter from DX11 onward, it'll go through the api and card vendors will have to conform to that to be DX11 compliant. But the fact that physx is already there shows that nvidia is ready to make this jump because they've already put a considerable amount of time into engineering their hardware in ways in which it can do these calculations..... don't twist my words though, i'm not saying they're dx11 compliant... but they do know their stuff, think of SLI, they had a good 2 year lead on ati in the multi-gpu sector because of SLI. Crossfire was dodgy, didn't scale well (then again sli wasn't great at scaling either), but it required a horrible dvi-dvi dongle for the 2 cards to communicate, whereas nvidia had already put the time into designing the really elegant (in comparison) sli bridge.

TLDR version: Who cares if it fails or not, physx is a step towrads the end result... which neither uses the current instantiation of physx or havok
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Old 06-14-09, 02:12 PM   #72
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Default Re: PhysX officially sucks.

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that's the thing i was trying to say. YES physx will fail, it's a single vendor solution, that won't win market support.
That is not necessarily true.

PhysX works on ATI, NVIDIA, XB360, PS3, hell even Wii! That is why so many developers are planning to use the PhysX API, including EA, Sega, Grin, Capcom, Ubisoft.

Now, hardware accelerated PhysX is a different story, that works on only NVIDIA right now.
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