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Old 06-16-09, 09:08 AM   #73
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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Originally Posted by Atomizer View Post
Pretty sure a point is missed, Developers(or the publishers), are developing console first now, and PC second, if at all, that usually tends to leave PC with a mediocore port, and console level graphics.However, thanks to a few key developers, we still have a better experience in some games because they are dedicated to PC first, Valve is a good example, Crytek were also a good example, ID are kind of doing both at once but are still PC devs at heart, and Blizzard loves us PC gamers.
Epic have abandoned their roots and are attacking PC as a gaming platform, then expect PC gamers to buy their **** and are shocked when their games dont sell as well on PC :P

When the first DX11 games come out I expect there to again be a large gap between consoles and PCs, but the console first developed games will still be roughly equal on PC, thats just how it is, and its not until the next gen consoles that we will see better use of PC hardware by them.
I never missed that point.... and I understand what NZero is saying: he hopes Doom 4 is developed for the next Generation of Consoles so that the PC version is better for it in the long run.... I received that a couple posts back, guys.


Yeah, Epic has turned into quite a piece of work. One thing I don't understand is why everyone hated on UT3 soooo much... mind you, I waited 6 months to buy it, and I'd heard that before it was patched, everything was, "too small", and that it didn't feel right.

It's felt completely badass from the get go for me. I'm on the UT3patch2 and it rules. It feels better than all previous UT titles (V-Sync introduces zero lag, there's a hair on UT04), the weapons rock, and it looks amazing.


"its not until the next gen consoles that we will see better use of PC hardware by them."

I hear what you guys are saying... but I ask you... if you're a true PC Gamer, whyth do you support Publishers that have taken said stance by buying 'any'thing Console related?

I mean, we as gamers aren't 'starving' for Games, so why give in to absolute mediocrity, zero options, and poor performance overall? We don't need a savior in Gaming, we simply need support for the hardware that's already available.

Whotf is going to enjoy Rage and Doom 4 on a 360 or P3... with a gamepad, lol... and subpar looks... I just don't get how the Sheep buy into it.... and imo, 'any' PC Gamer who buys Console is only furthering the demise of what/where the PC should be in terms of Gaming.


It should be leading without question.
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Old 06-16-09, 09:09 AM   #74
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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You're a trip...
You're short winded...
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Old 06-16-09, 09:12 PM   #75
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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I never missed that point.... and I understand what NZero is saying: he hopes Doom 4 is developed for the next Generation of Consoles so that the PC version is better for it in the long run.... I received that a couple posts back, guys.


Yeah, Epic has turned into quite a piece of work. One thing I don't understand is why everyone hated on UT3 soooo much... mind you, I waited 6 months to buy it, and I'd heard that before it was patched, everything was, "too small", and that it didn't feel right.

It's felt completely badass from the get go for me. I'm on the UT3patch2 and it rules. It feels better than all previous UT titles (V-Sync introduces zero lag, there's a hair on UT04), the weapons rock, and it looks amazing.
Yeah, I didnt mind UT3, but I honestly thought it was mediocore, it didnt really offer anything interesting while I was playing it, though I did only play the demo, and decided it wasnt worth buying.

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"its not until the next gen consoles that we will see better use of PC hardware by them."

I hear what you guys are saying... but I ask you... if you're a true PC Gamer, whyth do you support Publishers that have taken said stance by buying 'any'thing Console related?

I mean, we as gamers aren't 'starving' for Games, so why give in to absolute mediocrity, zero options, and poor performance overall? We don't need a savior in Gaming, we simply need support for the hardware that's already available.

Whotf is going to enjoy Rage and Doom 4 on a 360 or P3... with a gamepad, lol... and subpar looks... I just don't get how the Sheep buy into it.... and imo, 'any' PC Gamer who buys Console is only furthering the demise of what/where the PC should be in terms of Gaming.


It should be leading without question.
You're totally right!
*slaps himself for owning a PS3, xbox360, Wii and PS2*
Though honestly, I hate console FPS/TPS games, and any game thats also on PC, I get the PC version, not the console version, the main reason I own any consoles is for good console exclusives.
IMO though, its not console sales that cause developers to jump ship, its software sales, otherwise most devs would still be on PC considering theres way more game capable PCs then consoles.
Regardless, any FPS belongs on PC, console fanboys that like Halo can diaf, and by the sound of Doom 4, ill definently be picking up a copy(for PC)
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Old 06-17-09, 09:41 AM   #76
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Post Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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A. Yeah, I didnt mind UT3, but I honestly thought it was mediocore, it didnt really offer anything interesting while I was playing it, though I did only play the demo, and decided it wasnt worth buying.



B. You're totally right!
*slaps himself for owning a PS3, xbox360, Wii and PS2*
Though honestly, I hate console FPS/TPS games, and any game thats also on PC, I get the PC version, not the console version, the main reason I own any consoles is for good console exclusives.
IMO though, its not console sales that cause developers to jump ship, its software sales, otherwise most devs would still be on PC considering theres way more game capable PCs then consoles.Regardless, any FPS belongs on PC, console fanboys that like Halo can diaf, and by the sound of Doom 4, ill definently be picking up a copy(for PC)
A. Hmmm, really.... I take it you're not a fan of the UT series as a whole then? I wasn't expecting UT3 to do anything different than UT04 and UT... other than have an improved look, and weapons that looked and behaved slightly different than the previous version. I expected nothing more when UT04 dropped as well.

I'm very satisfied with the latest version... looks amazing, feels absolutely amazing/butta, the maps are sick, the weapons are fun as hell, the introduction of the vehicles on some of the maps was a nice touch = AA works, lol... I give it an A+.

B. I hear ya, believe me... if it wasn't for Sony and Microsoft asking 'way' too much money for their overpriced hardware, I'd have both of those systems with the exclusive 'action/arcade' games... I could never play a shooter on those systems whether 3rd or 1st person.... I'm a mouse man and always will be. Hell, there's probably a lot of games I'd enjoy on those two systems but again, the ridiculous prices for the hardware makes that option out of the question for me. Charging 5x more for a Harddrive insults me more than I can put into words.... same goes for the ****ty video cards those units have.

'BOLD' - I disagree somewhat... I think the 'main' reason Publishers have decided to centralize their efforts towards Console gaming is because of the unified hardware architecture/structure = it's waaaaay easier for Developers to make games for said systems because of the lack of variables (i.e. things that can/will go wrong on a variety of PC Systems), AND also because they are not expected to make a game as solid... because Console Gamers don't expect the same experience as the average PC Gamer does.

They don't expect V-Sync and AA... or completely solid frame rates... hell, they just want to plug a game in, and be able to manipulate blobs on the screen relatively hassle free.


I concur: all FPSs belong on PC... I wish the Publishers for these gorgeous looking Console shooters would get them ported over to PC. I guess they're worried they won't sell well and deem it a waste of money and time... plus... if they're going to port them, they'd have to make sure V-Sync works at a minimum.... and AA too unless they want to be ridiculed (which I spose they don't give a sh*t about anyway, lol, hell... they do it their Console Fan base).



Imo: when brilliant Coding minds like Carmack and whoever the minds are at Blizzard... die and go away... PC Gaming will have lost a lot. Our current generation of thieves and copiers and noncoders are not going to keep up the tradition of what PC Gaming has been in the past (and I'm talking 2000<).... look at the mess the current generation has made of PC Gaming in a matter of only a decade.
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Old 06-17-09, 06:28 PM   #77
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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Originally Posted by Protoplasym View Post
A. Hmmm, really.... I take it you're not a fan of the UT series as a whole then? I wasn't expecting UT3 to do anything different than UT04 and UT... other than have an improved look, and weapons that looked and behaved slightly different than the previous version. I expected nothing more when UT04 dropped as well.

I'm very satisfied with the latest version... looks amazing, feels absolutely amazing/butta, the maps are sick, the weapons are fun as hell, the introduction of the vehicles on some of the maps was a nice touch = AA works, lol... I give it an A+.
I used to like UT, but yeah its as you said, I never really played it that much, I was really into Quake MP, back in the day, but ever since Team Fortress, CTF, Counter-Strike etc, deathmatch, and even team deathmatch has lost its charm, and I know UT has some other game modes but I dunno, it obviously didnt hold me otherwise I would have bought it :P


Quote:
B. I hear ya, believe me... if it wasn't for Sony and Microsoft asking 'way' too much money for their overpriced hardware, I'd have both of those systems with the exclusive 'action/arcade' games... I could never play a shooter on those systems whether 3rd or 1st person.... I'm a mouse man and always will be. Hell, there's probably a lot of games I'd enjoy on those two systems but again, the ridiculous prices for the hardware makes that option out of the question for me. Charging 5x more for a Harddrive insults me more than I can put into words.... same goes for the ****ty video cards those units have.
The whole seperate HDD and HD-DVD thing on the 360 is laughable, I honestly hate the xbox more then any other console(despite now owning one), IMO the best current gen console is the PS3, well, in terms of technology, bluray drive, built in wireless, great for streaming media off my computer and watching my collection of bluray movies, pretty much all it gets used for now, mainly cause im always "busy" on my PC :P
Infact, out of all the consoles I have, the only one ive played recently is...my PS2.

Quote:
'BOLD' - I disagree somewhat... I think the 'main' reason Publishers have decided to centralize their efforts towards Console gaming is because of the unified hardware architecture/structure = it's waaaaay easier for Developers to make games for said systems because of the lack of variables (i.e. things that can/will go wrong on a variety of PC Systems), AND also because they are not expected to make a game as solid... because Console Gamers don't expect the same experience as the average PC Gamer does.

They don't expect V-Sync and AA... or completely solid frame rates... hell, they just want to plug a game in, and be able to manipulate blobs on the screen relatively hassle free.
Hmm, not sure about the V-Sync and AA part, since its fairly basic to include, especially with V-Sync, all you need to do is tell the driver to enable or disable V-Sync, so at most adding another option to the menu.
You're right about development for consoles being much easier though, 1 set of hardware, allows them to optimize only for that set of hardware, where as PC has a million different combinations its impossible for a company to test them all, not testing different combinations will result in a bug ridden game that people will return or end up not buying(which in turn also means they need to spend money patching things), but testing on a wide range of hardware setups also costs money, and then they will still need to patch it.

Quote:
I concur: all FPSs belong on PC... I wish the Publishers for these gorgeous looking Console shooters would get them ported over to PC. I guess they're worried they won't sell well and deem it a waste of money and time... plus... if they're going to port them, they'd have to make sure V-Sync works at a minimum.... and AA too unless they want to be ridiculed (which I spose they don't give a sh*t about anyway, lol, hell... they do it their Console Fan base).
IMO, some console shooters are best left there :P
But some definentely need to be on PC, but...not ported, developed PC first, console second, I mean look at what happend to Deus Ex 2 and Bioshock, dumbed down versions of Deus Ex 1 and System Shock 2, because they were developed with consoles in mind, not PCs.


Quote:
Imo: when brilliant Coding minds like Carmack and whoever the minds are at Blizzard... die and go away... PC Gaming will have lost a lot. Our current generation of thieves and copiers and noncoders are not going to keep up the tradition of what PC Gaming has been in the past (and I'm talking 2000<).... look at the mess the current generation has made of PC Gaming in a matter of only a decade.
That will be a sad day in PC gaming history, and you're right, people learning to be a programmer now, will likely never care about PC as a gaming platform, so once the great PC devs die out, we wont really have anything good to look forward to :/
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Old 06-18-09, 02:05 PM   #78
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Post Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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A. I used to like UT, but yeah its as you said, I never really played it that much, I was really into Quake MP, back in the day, but ever since Team Fortress, CTF, Counter-Strike etc, deathmatch, and even team deathmatch has lost its charm, and I know UT has some other game modes but I dunno, it obviously didnt hold me otherwise I would have bought it :P


B. IMO, some console shooters are best left there :P
But some definentely need to be on PC, but...not ported, developed PC first, console second, I mean look at what happend to Deus Ex 2 and Bioshock, dumbed down versions of Deus Ex 1 and System Shock 2, because they were developed with consoles in mind, not PCs.
A. Quake MP is still one of the best MP FPSs of all time imo... so solid, and looks fine... Quake 2/3 are just as badass but look even better. I played assloads of Quake MP during High School back in the late '90s... so much fun.

I'm still a huge CS fan... not so much of the Source version though... although I'm sure with enough playing I'd like it... I remember when the Source version came out, the guns didn't feel the same, and Valve had changed up the hit boxes quite a bit... maybe it's fixed now, dunno. I never did take off to TeamFortress, I liked the idea of multiple classes working together towards a common goal/yada, but just didn't get into it... the Source version is pretty badass though. Did you ever play Action for HL1? That was some of the best DM ever! Doing dives and breaking through windows and the weapons and the Akimbo pistols... man, that one was badass... I wonder if there's a Source version of that nowadays... surely there is, lol. Honestly, HL1 was my favorite DM ever... guts everywhere, mass insanity, completely unique and badass maps like Gasworks, and the one that had the Nuke that would go off every 10-15 mins... was so fun for about a year until the cheaters completely ruined it... same BS happened to CS.

Cheating from that point on is what's kept me from becoming interested in MP 'ever' again... EXCEPT for Warcraft 3, because I know I can count on Blizzard to constantly patch the game to fix exploits by the sh*theads at large. I'll never understand why people cheat at MP games.... useless MFers!

B. Dunno... I'd love to have those ummm... Killzone games to name a couple (they look like solid Linear Railride shooters), that one that started with the word, 'time'... exclusive for PS3.. I guess that one'd fit in my collection as well, lol.. even though the reviews weren't that good. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to collecting games you see. Halo 2/3 for XP would be cool. Can't think of any others, ha.

'Deus Ex 2' - I've got both of them: I read that part 2 is a "dumbed down version" of the first one... "less RPG elements" er somethin... 1 looks like it's gonna be totally kickass (15 mins of testing, V-Sync+AA work), 2 has even better graphics and some physics to it so that looked promising as hell during my 15 mins of testing... as long as it's got 'some' RPG elements, I'll be satisfied.

I'm not sure what you don't like about Bioshock... it's one of my top 5 FPSs of all time... hands down 'the' best Plot Twist I've ever seen in a game imo, beyond immersive/scary atmosphere/feelings of being totally alone/etc, fantastic control (thanks to the quality U3 Engine), I'll be playing that one again and again for life... same will go for 2 and 3 I'm sure. 2 looks like it's going to be just as amazing if not even cooler.

I've read sooo much about System Shock II (don't have it in my collection yet, but will as soon as I see a decent price for one sealed... not paying bloody $60-70 on Ebay for it) and how it's one of the best games of all time for story and atmosphere. Seen plenty of Youtube vids and it looks very spooky especially considering how freaky the 'oldschool lookin' models appear. Too bad it's got the same 'horrid' history as Thief 2 as far as 'QuadCore compatibility' goes.

I have Thief II and 'still' haven't been able to get it to run properly... I've got a mod/fix bookmarked that was toted to work specifically for the 169.21s I'm on... have yet to try it though... I spent the better part of Jan-Mar '08 trying to get that damn thing to work. The messed up thing is that the first time I loaded it up, it ran beautifully, V-sync/AA worked, shadows were correct, no weird sky textures (as I read so much about)... but since that first boot up, all kinds of sh*te... won't load up, or crashes as soon as I start the game...

Sucks because I expect System Shock II to be the same story. I've got another machine with a fast SingleCore and an old 68GT, and I'm sure they'd both work on there... but until I've given up completely: I won't go that route. I've still got that one fix (it's actually for both Thief 2 and SS II) bookmarked/waiting to be tried, so hopefully all is not lost, lol.


anyhoot
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Old 06-18-09, 08:29 PM   #79
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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A. Quake MP is still one of the best MP FPSs of all time imo... so solid, and looks fine... Quake 2/3 are just as badass but look even better. I played assloads of Quake MP during High School back in the late '90s... so much fun.
I was pretty much the same, also remember having ax duels, plenty of fun

Quote:
I'm still a huge CS fan... not so much of the Source version though... although I'm sure with enough playing I'd like it... I remember when the Source version came out, the guns didn't feel the same, and Valve had changed up the hit boxes quite a bit... maybe it's fixed now, dunno. I never did take off to TeamFortress, I liked the idea of multiple classes working together towards a common goal/yada, but just didn't get into it... the Source version is pretty badass though. Did you ever play Action for HL1? That was some of the best DM ever! Doing dives and breaking through windows and the weapons and the Akimbo pistols... man, that one was badass... I wonder if there's a Source version of that nowadays... surely there is, lol. Honestly, HL1 was my favorite DM ever... guts everywhere, mass insanity, completely unique and badass maps like Gasworks, and the one that had the Nuke that would go off every 10-15 mins... was so fun for about a year until the cheaters completely ruined it... same BS happened to CS.

Cheating from that point on is what's kept me from becoming interested in MP 'ever' again... EXCEPT for Warcraft 3, because I know I can count on Blizzard to constantly patch the game to fix exploits by the sh*theads at large. I'll never understand why people cheat at MP games.... useless MFers!
I actually played CS from the very first beta, and kind of lost interest at beta 6, mostly cause my computer was utter crap and beta 6 got really laggy, running on the lowest settings I could find, oddly though, I poaned back then, and suck now D:


I also prefered CS:S once it came out, I didnt get into it straight away(was too busy playing HL2), but I guess I just liked the handling better, also I remember that nuke map in HL1, played on it heaps, it would be a mad rush to get to the bunker before it all closed up, was madness.
The last DM centric game I liked alot though would have to be HL2M, but most likely its because of the gravity gun, so damn fun playing catch, trying to get someone offguard :P

And yeah I really dont get cheaters, cheats are fine, in a SP game, they can extend the life of any game, but in MP its just lame, its like they are either too lazy to play, or they suck so hard they even fail to kill you with cheats(which has happend), on that topic, PvP MMOs are a haven for the people who liked to cheat in other MP games, even if they arent cheating, all they need to do is go after people half their level and twink out their character and their opponent doesnt stand a chance.


Quote:
B. Dunno... I'd love to have those ummm... Killzone games to name a couple (they look like solid Linear Railride shooters), that one that started with the word, 'time'... exclusive for PS3.. I guess that one'd fit in my collection as well, lol.. even though the reviews weren't that good. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to collecting games you see. Halo 2/3 for XP would be cool. Can't think of any others, ha.

'Deus Ex 2' - I've got both of them: I read that part 2 is a "dumbed down version" of the first one... "less RPG elements" er somethin... 1 looks like it's gonna be totally kickass (15 mins of testing, V-Sync+AA work), 2 has even better graphics and some physics to it so that looked promising as hell during my 15 mins of testing... as long as it's got 'some' RPG elements, I'll be satisfied.
Some, not all :P Killzone never really interested me because it was a console exclusive, if it came to PC I might try it, but generally if I hear a FPS on console my eyes glaze and roll back into their skull.
Deus Ex 2 is dumbed down, its basically had most of its features from Deus Ex 1 cut, its what I like to call consolization of an IP, I am sure itd be a fun game, but it loses the point that the original made.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you don't like about Bioshock... it's one of my top 5 FPSs of all time... hands down 'the' best Plot Twist I've ever seen in a game imo, beyond immersive/scary atmosphere/feelings of being totally alone/etc, fantastic control (thanks to the quality U3 Engine), I'll be playing that one again and again for life... same will go for 2 and 3 I'm sure. 2 looks like it's going to be just as amazing if not even cooler.
The same thing as I said above goes for Bioshock, its a consolized "spiritual successor" to System Shock 2, I do like it, thats why I have it installed atm, but it definently doesnt have the same appeal to me as SS2 did, and I would rather a true non-consolized System Shock 3, instead of Bioshock 2, but EA seems content on sitting on the IP doing nothing with it, and if they did....consolization.

Quote:
I've read sooo much about System Shock II (don't have it in my collection yet, but will as soon as I see a decent price for one sealed... not paying bloody $60-70 on Ebay for it) and how it's one of the best games of all time for story and atmosphere. Seen plenty of Youtube vids and it looks very spooky especially considering how freaky the 'oldschool lookin' models appear. Too bad it's got the same 'horrid' history as Thief 2 as far as 'QuadCore compatibility' goes.

I have Thief II and 'still' haven't been able to get it to run properly... I've got a mod/fix bookmarked that was toted to work specifically for the 169.21s I'm on... have yet to try it though... I spent the better part of Jan-Mar '08 trying to get that damn thing to work. The messed up thing is that the first time I loaded it up, it ran beautifully, V-sync/AA worked, shadows were correct, no weird sky textures (as I read so much about)... but since that first boot up, all kinds of sh*te... won't load up, or crashes as soon as I start the game...

Sucks because I expect System Shock II to be the same story. I've got another machine with a fast SingleCore and an old 68GT, and I'm sure they'd both work on there... but until I've given up completely: I won't go that route. I've still got that one fix (it's actually for both Thief 2 and SS II) bookmarked/waiting to be tried, so hopefully all is not lost, lol.


anyhoot
The easiest fix(though I think you have to do it every time you launch the game) is once you get to the menu, alt+tab out, open up task manager, find SS2 in the process list, right click on it and go to "Set Affinity", then uncheck all but 1 core, then go back into the game and load a game(new or otherwise), I would definently recommend aswell, you at least get the official patch, it fixes a few things but also adds coop, which was alot of fun, but isnt trouble free.
When we first started trying to play it we couldnt even get a game started, then were confused by where we were, because in the intro part of the game you cant see eachother, its not until you actually board the ship.
Other then that it worked mostly flawless, we even managed to beat the game, with lots of reloading near the end :P
However, on one session, a hybrids AI was bugged, it was just standing there, and its head would spin to look at us, even while behind it, we pretty much gave up on that session :P

Anyway, System Shock IP ftw, cmon EA, *cough*make some more money*cough*(pcexclusiveplz)
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Old 06-22-09, 04:46 PM   #80
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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A. I was pretty much the same, also remember having ax duels, plenty of fun


B. I actually played CS from the very first beta, and kind of lost interest at beta 6, mostly cause my computer was utter crap and beta 6 got really laggy, running on the lowest settings I could find, oddly though, I poaned back then, and suck now D:


C. I also prefered CS:S once it came out, I didnt get into it straight away(was too busy playing HL2), but I guess I just liked the handling better, also I remember that nuke map in HL1, played on it heaps, it would be a mad rush to get to the bunker before it all closed up, was madness.
The last DM centric game I liked alot though would have to be HL2M, but most likely its because of the gravity gun, so damn fun playing catch, trying to get someone offguard :P

D. And yeah I really dont get cheaters, cheats are fine, in a SP game, they can extend the life of any game, but in MP its just lame, its like they are either too lazy to play, or they suck so hard they even fail to kill you with cheats(which has happend), on that topic, PvP MMOs are a haven for the people who liked to cheat in other MP games, even if they arent cheating, all they need to do is go after people half their level and twink out their character and their opponent doesnt stand a chance.



E. Some, not all :P Killzone never really interested me because it was a console exclusive, if it came to PC I might try it, but generally if I hear a FPS on console my eyes glaze and roll back into their skull.
Deus Ex 2 is dumbed down, its basically had most of its features from Deus Ex 1 cut, its what I like to call consolization of an IP, I am sure itd be a fun game, but it loses the point that the original made.


F. The same thing as I said above goes for Bioshock, its a consolized "spiritual successor" to System Shock 2, I do like it, thats why I have it installed atm, but it definently doesnt have the same appeal to me as SS2 did, and I would rather a true non-consolized System Shock 3, instead of Bioshock 2, but EA seems content on sitting on the IP doing nothing with it, and if they did....consolization.


G. The easiest fix(though I think you have to do it every time you launch the game) is once you get to the menu, alt+tab out, open up task manager, find SS2 in the process list, right click on it and go to "Set Affinity", then uncheck all but 1 core, then go back into the game and load a game(new or otherwise), I would definently recommend aswell, you at least get the official patch, it fixes a few things but also adds coop, which was alot of fun, but isnt trouble free.
When we first started trying to play it we couldnt even get a game started, then were confused by where we were, because in the intro part of the game you cant see eachother, its not until you actually board the ship.
Other then that it worked mostly flawless, we even managed to beat the game, with lots of reloading near the end :P
However, on one session, a hybrids AI was bugged, it was just standing there, and its head would spin to look at us, even while behind it, we pretty much gave up on that session :P

Anyway, System Shock IP ftw, cmon EA, *cough*make some more money*cough*(pcexclusiveplz)
A. Dude, you know it! I loved doing that as well... man those maps were so dark and twisted... it was a great experience with 4 kids on LAN going after each other.... loved those nailguns!

B. Oh wow, that's cool... I didn't get into it until after it had been polished up for a year.. lol. I see you had roughly 300 ping in that pic... ouch I used to play that on my Cousins setup and he had a fast connect at the time.. we'd always get mid 50s-150s on solid servers. I miss those days, buttery gamin, hard opponents that were there to have fun and not cheat.

C. That Nuke map in HL1 was definitely the epitome of 'madness incarnate'! I never did try HL2 DM, but I imagine it's every bit as solid as the original.... those weapons rule in both games, so... well, hell... HL1 the maps is what really made it... did Valve bring the heat when they made maps for DM for HL2? I would imagine so...

D. The only MMO I ever plan on playing is GuildWars (box is sitting on the floor uninstalled) and that's because it's free, and a buddy of mine swears by it. I have another friend who says screw GWs... play EverQuest II instead, but I refuse to pay a monthly service for 'any' game. Unless ID makes a Doom RPG with IDTech5 er somethin, lol... I'd join that in a heartbeat.

E. Lol, I hear ya... I'd read that Deus Ex 2 was still a really solid shooter with 'some' RPGish elements, so I'm sure I'm gonna love it.

F. You really think so? I haven't played System Shock II still, so I don't know what it's like.... being a fan of said game, and having waited forever for a part 3. Honestly... Bioshock looks like it's own thing to me... the only similarity is the RPG aspect, and the fact that the player is all alone. I'm not trying to argue (far from it), but I'm curious why you call it, "consolidized"... I understand it was designed 'with the console in mind' and if that's why you label it as such - understood... but imo: it's a PC shooter through and through. I think 2K outdid themselves with it.... and I expect 2 & 3 to be of the same spit and shine.

G. Yeah, I'm aware of that fix... I have to do it for NeedForSpeed UG2 otherwise it'll crash. I'd already tried it for Theif 2 to no avail.

That models' head bugging out sounds freaky!

What was the last system you were able to play SSII on?
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Old 06-22-09, 11:22 PM   #81
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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Originally Posted by Protoplasym View Post
A. Dude, you know it! I loved doing that as well... man those maps were so dark and twisted... it was a great experience with 4 kids on LAN going after each other.... loved those nailguns!

B. Oh wow, that's cool... I didn't get into it until after it had been polished up for a year.. lol. I see you had roughly 300 ping in that pic... ouch I used to play that on my Cousins setup and he had a fast connect at the time.. we'd always get mid 50s-150s on solid servers. I miss those days, buttery gamin, hard opponents that were there to have fun and not cheat.
Yeah its kind of funny that way, back then I had 25FPS, low resolution, 300 ping times etc, and I kicked arse, even against people with sub-100 pings.
But when I was playing CS:S more recently(havent played in awhile though), with solid 50+FPS, sub-100 pings and high resolution(1920x1200), I sucked, its like my skill has gone down by a factor of my framerate....

Quote:
C. That Nuke map in HL1 was definitely the epitome of 'madness incarnate'! I never did try HL2 DM, but I imagine it's every bit as solid as the original.... those weapons rule in both games, so... well, hell... HL1 the maps is what really made it... did Valve bring the heat when they made maps for DM for HL2? I would imagine so...
Not sure what you mean by heat, but I dont really remember any unique features about HL2DM's maps, not that there isnt any, just I cant remember any(definently spent more time playing HL1DM), apart from the fact they are littered with physics objects of course, you can play an entire game without anyone using anything but the gravity gun

Quote:
D. The only MMO I ever plan on playing is GuildWars (box is sitting on the floor uninstalled) and that's because it's free, and a buddy of mine swears by it. I have another friend who says screw GWs... play EverQuest II instead, but I refuse to pay a monthly service for 'any' game. Unless ID makes a Doom RPG with IDTech5 er somethin, lol... I'd join that in a heartbeat.
Im one who doesnt mind a good MMO, though none of the current MMOs can satisfy me anymore, so I dont play any of them right now, I will be honest though, I played EQ1 back in the day, and I dont think any MMO since has actually topped it for me, WoW is clearly the most popular, and is actually a fun game, but if I want a fun RPG I wont be playing a MMO...uh, I kind of worded that wrong(but I aint erasing it).
What I ment is MMOs are more then "just a game", if you remove the sandbox style freedom, you kind of lose the whole point, EQ1 for example, let any player kill any NPC, even inside the cities, even inside their races own city, it doesnt matter, you play how you want, of course, by killing something, you lose and gain factions, which in turn makes you hated/liked in different cities, a very basic system but no MMO has done it since.
I could talk about modern MMO faults all day, in short though: Freedom.
Oh and one last thing, I know EQ1 was a pain in the ass, losing levels, corpse runs etc, things that do need changing, but not at the cost of freedom, thats my point.

Quote:
E. Lol, I hear ya... I'd read that Deus Ex 2 was still a really solid shooter with 'some' RPGish elements, so I'm sure I'm gonna love it.

F. You really think so? I haven't played System Shock II still, so I don't know what it's like.... being a fan of said game, and having waited forever for a part 3. Honestly... Bioshock looks like it's own thing to me... the only similarity is the RPG aspect, and the fact that the player is all alone. I'm not trying to argue (far from it), but I'm curious why you call it, "consolidized"... I understand it was designed 'with the console in mind' and if that's why you label it as such - understood... but imo: it's a PC shooter through and through. I think 2K outdid themselves with it.... and I expect 2 & 3 to be of the same spit and shine.
Well the main systems are in place, ill run through some examples.

System Shock 2 skillsets
Hacking: Uses a grid based system, you must connect 3 nodes in a straight line, but theres a chance(depending on your skills) for it to go dark instead, which means it blocks you from making a line there, you are able to hack turrets, security crates, shops, security doors and the security panels themselves, to turn off the security for a couple of minutes(which shuts down turrets and cameras), the hacking system in Bioshock isnt much less complex then SS2, however there is no security doors or hacking of the security system, also, it has the opt out of paying cash to autohack things, where as SS2 doesnt.



Research: In SS2 you get an unknown object that you can research, depending on your skill, enemy organs can give you bonuses against those enemies once you have researched them, however researching in SS2 usually requires chemicals throughout the process which are obtained from Chemical Storerooms that, if you did alot of researching, youd be going back to the nearest one to collect the chemicals, but since the levels in SS2 werent linear there was always one nearby.
In Bioshock they adopted a simple camera system for research, now this one I am not going to call a dumbed down version then SS2s, because its quite different and fits well, its not really dumbed down.


Dont think I will run through the rest of the skills, the main thing is SS2 has a bunch of skills you must manually spend points in, and Psionics were entirely optional, it was a true RPG.
Bioshock is still RPGish in nature, but theres no inventory, you are forced down one path(of using the powers), yet all the elements from SS2 are there in a simplified form(Psionics, Hacking, Security, Research and of course the weapons), to be more streamlined for consoles(I cant imagine managing that inventory with a controller).
However, I will admit that the PC version of Bioshock isnt really disappointing, it doesnt have bad controls or clunky arrow-key interfaces, so they did do a good job of the PC version, but I still miss SS2 :P
Oh, and coop:




Quote:
G. Yeah, I'm aware of that fix... I have to do it for NeedForSpeed UG2 otherwise it'll crash. I'd already tried it for Theif 2 to no avail.

That models' head bugging out sounds freaky!

What was the last system you were able to play SSII on?
Ive actually played SS2 on this system im on now, 8800GTX, Core 2 Duo E6600, 2GB RAM, running under Windows Vista 64bit, though now im on Win7 64bit, but havent tried SS2 on it yet.

These posts are getting long
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Old 06-23-09, 09:26 AM   #82
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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A. Yeah its kind of funny that way, back then I had 25FPS, low resolution, 300 ping times etc, and I kicked arse, even against people with sub-100 pings.
But when I was playing CS:S more recently(havent played in awhile though), with solid 50+FPS, sub-100 pings and high resolution(1920x1200), I sucked, its like my skill has gone down by a factor of my framerate....


B. Not sure what you mean by heat, but I dont really remember any unique features about HL2DM's maps, not that there isnt any, just I cant remember any(definently spent more time playing HL1DM), apart from the fact they are littered with physics objects of course, you can play an entire game without anyone using anything but the gravity gun


C. Im one who doesnt mind a good MMO, though none of the current MMOs can satisfy me anymore, so I dont play any of them right now, I will be honest though, I played EQ1 back in the day, and I dont think any MMO since has actually topped it for me, WoW is clearly the most popular, and is actually a fun game, but if I want a fun RPG I wont be playing a MMO...uh, I kind of worded that wrong(but I aint erasing it).
What I ment is MMOs are more then "just a game", if you remove the sandbox style freedom, you kind of lose the whole point, EQ1 for example, let any player kill any NPC, even inside the cities, even inside their races own city, it doesnt matter, you play how you want, of course, by killing something, you lose and gain factions, which in turn makes you hated/liked in different cities, a very basic system but no MMO has done it since.
I could talk about modern MMO faults all day, in short though: Freedom.
Oh and one last thing, I know EQ1 was a pain in the ass, losing levels, corpse runs etc, things that do need changing, but not at the cost of freedom, thats my point.


D. Well the main systems are in place, ill run through some examples.

System Shock 2 skillsets
Hacking: Uses a grid based system, you must connect 3 nodes in a straight line, but theres a chance(depending on your skills) for it to go dark instead, which means it blocks you from making a line there, you are able to hack turrets, security crates, shops, security doors and the security panels themselves, to turn off the security for a couple of minutes(which shuts down turrets and cameras), the hacking system in Bioshock isnt much less complex then SS2, however there is no security doors or hacking of the security system, also, it has the opt out of paying cash to autohack things, where as SS2 doesnt.



Research: In SS2 you get an unknown object that you can research, depending on your skill, enemy organs can give you bonuses against those enemies once you have researched them, however researching in SS2 usually requires chemicals throughout the process which are obtained from Chemical Storerooms that, if you did alot of researching, youd be going back to the nearest one to collect the chemicals, but since the levels in SS2 werent linear there was always one nearby.
In Bioshock they adopted a simple camera system for research, now this one I am not going to call a dumbed down version then SS2s, because its quite different and fits well, its not really dumbed down.


Dont think I will run through the rest of the skills, the main thing is SS2 has a bunch of skills you must manually spend points in, and Psionics were entirely optional, it was a true RPG.
Bioshock is still RPGish in nature, but theres no inventory, you are forced down one path(of using the powers), yet all the elements from SS2 are there in a simplified form(Psionics, Hacking, Security, Research and of course the weapons), to be more streamlined for consoles(I cant imagine managing that inventory with a controller).
However, I will admit that the PC version of Bioshock isnt really disappointing, it doesnt have bad controls or clunky arrow-key interfaces, so they did do a good job of the PC version, but I still miss SS2 :P
Oh, and coop:





E. Ive actually played SS2 on this system im on now, 8800GTX, Core 2 Duo E6600, 2GB RAM, running under Windows Vista 64bit, though now im on Win7 64bit, but havent tried SS2 on it yet.

These posts are getting long
A. Paybacks are a biatch... that's what you get for killing us 50 pingers with your 300 ping!! muhahaha Seriously though: practice makes perfect, lol.

B. I was basically curious if Valve made as 'cool' a maps for HL2DM as they did for part 1. The gravity gun sounds fun n all, but I'd probably go for servers where it's use was severely limited... sounds like it could easily get out hand, lol.

C. Damn, being able to kill NPCs, that sounds wild... my EQ2 buddy put in a lot of time on the first one, I'm gonna have to ask him about that. Ultimately, freedom is what I think we should be getting in 'all' of our games... from FP/3P Shooters to RPGs to our Hack n Slashes, everything...

We need wide open worlds to discover at our own paces, things to accomplish, people to meet and places to see... I love a solid Linear Railride as much as the next guy, but Sandbox needs to be the way of the future for gaming imo. It takes a LOT of effort to pull that off properly though.

Morrowind with the MGE (long distance viewing mod) has been 'the' most remarkable in this sense that I've ever played. Keep in mind (lol), I'm late to the game... I only acquired this machine in Jan'08 along with the fact that I hadn't played 95% of these games before.

So you can see my amazement only finding something like ESIII/IV in 2008 when everyone else saw them years ago. Literally, I've probably put 40+ hours in ESIII and I haven't even put a dent in the main quest.... so a Sandbox game like that simple gives me a world to live in and fantasize to in the most fullfilling ways possible. I wish I could start Fallout 3 but the damn thing doesn't like the 169.21s I'm on. That world looks amazing.

D. Well, you pretty much summed up the similarities! I didn't know they'd stolen soooo much from System Shock: that was interesting to learn. Damn, I really wanna play SS2 someday... it looks so well rounded and like a solid adventure. Thanks for taking the time to explain those game mechanics to me! Maaaaan, I wish Bioshock had an inventory..... SS2 really looks neato now!

E. Wow, no kidding? I wonder if you could play Thief 2 on your system as well..... christ, I can't believe there's something a Vista user got working on their build that I couldn't... That's an ultimate fail for me. Do you have to do anything special or simply use the 'affinity fix' everytime you load it up?




yeah I know, I've enjoyed it though, thks for entertainin the convo
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Old 06-23-09, 05:19 PM   #83
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Old 06-24-09, 12:51 AM   #84
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Default Re: Doom 4 30FPS cap (?)

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Originally Posted by Protoplasym View Post
A. Paybacks are a biatch... that's what you get for killing us 50 pingers with your 300 ping!! muhahaha Seriously though: practice makes perfect, lol.

B. I was basically curious if Valve made as 'cool' a maps for HL2DM as they did for part 1. The gravity gun sounds fun n all, but I'd probably go for servers where it's use was severely limited... sounds like it could easily get out hand, lol.
Ah, yeah I dont remember any specific details on the maps in HL2DM, its either because there isnt anything that stands out, or I simply didnt play it long enough, I know it is definently capable of all the HL1 maps and more, but definently nothing as epic as the nuke map.

Quote:
C. Damn, being able to kill NPCs, that sounds wild... my EQ2 buddy put in a lot of time on the first one, I'm gonna have to ask him about that. Ultimately, freedom is what I think we should be getting in 'all' of our games... from FP/3P Shooters to RPGs to our Hack n Slashes, everything...

We need wide open worlds to discover at our own paces, things to accomplish, people to meet and places to see... I love a solid Linear Railride as much as the next guy, but Sandbox needs to be the way of the future for gaming imo. It takes a LOT of effort to pull that off properly though.
I agree, though the nature of MMOs suggest they should be sandbox driven by default. unfortunatly MMO devs focus too much on the end game(crap for max level players to do), and the most common thing I see is people just rushing to get there so they can raid, and of course, morons paying real cash for leveling services(Dont hate on me, I have friends who have done it too, its just stupid to pay cash to get someone else to play the game for you, defeats the purpose of gaming).

Quote:
Morrowind with the MGE (long distance viewing mod) has been 'the' most remarkable in this sense that I've ever played. Keep in mind (lol), I'm late to the game... I only acquired this machine in Jan'08 along with the fact that I hadn't played 95% of these games before.

So you can see my amazement only finding something like ESIII/IV in 2008 when everyone else saw them years ago. Literally, I've probably put 40+ hours in ESIII and I haven't even put a dent in the main quest.... so a Sandbox game like that simple gives me a world to live in and fantasize to in the most fullfilling ways possible. I wish I could start Fallout 3 but the damn thing doesn't like the 169.21s I'm on. That world looks amazing.
Games like Morrowind is an exception to the rule, Morrowind is a great sandbox, truely you can do what you want, kill who you want, steal anything you want etc its what MMOs should strive to be like(Maybe with Oblivions combat though).
I have actually seen a speedrun of Morrowind where they "complete" the game within 12 minutes or something insane like that, of course they do use glitches to obtain it, skipping 99% of the main quest, but youd never be able to obtain that in a linear railride.
Oblivion plays better overall, but its interface suffers from consolitise(yes I like saying that :P ), just a bit clunky and obviously not designed with a mouse in mind(plus everything is huge, luckily theres alot of user mods to make the interface smaller).


Quote:
D. Well, you pretty much summed up the similarities! I didn't know they'd stolen soooo much from System Shock: that was interesting to learn. Damn, I really wanna play SS2 someday... it looks so well rounded and like a solid adventure. Thanks for taking the time to explain those game mechanics to me! Maaaaan, I wish Bioshock had an inventory..... SS2 really looks neato now!
Yeah, though I wouldnt say they stole it from SS2, the head devs on Bioshock were the original devs of SS2 before the company shut down, and Bioshock was considered a "spiritual successor" to SS2, but I still miss the SS2 theme and gameplay.

Quote:
E. Wow, no kidding? I wonder if you could play Thief 2 on your system as well..... christ, I can't believe there's something a Vista user got working on their build that I couldn't... That's an ultimate fail for me. Do you have to do anything special or simply use the 'affinity fix' everytime you load it up?
I had some way to perminently apply the affinity fix so I didnt have to keep doing it, though before I found it I did have to do it manually, ah, here it is, I have a batch file that I run instead of the main games .exe, all it contains is:
Quote:
start/affinity 1 shock2.exe
That essentially forces the affinity and then launches it, and thats pretty much all I needed, though I did have the official patch that included MP, not sure if it made any difference on whether I could run it or not, the same thing could be done for Thief 2 if the only problem is it not liking more then 1 core


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yeah I know, I've enjoyed it though, thks for entertainin the convo
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