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Old 08-13-09, 02:25 AM   #25
agentkay
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

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Originally Posted by TheANIMAL View Post
Same hear but i still feel that it looks 'messy" in quite a number of places,and it also looks too dark in shadows just generally speaking. Maybe that is the fault of having one light bounce, when really you need at least three or four for more photoreal feel imo.

Sometimes when i'm using an unbiased renderer i set the light bounces up to about 12 and just let it chug away for hours until i get teh result back andits generally quite convincing.
The youtube clip was a bit lowres to really see the details but I thought the shadows looked fine. IMO they were quite dark because the light source was very "strong", a weaker or more diffuse light source should cause less contrast and therefore lighter shadows. At least thats how it looked to me. I don't even think they went for photorealism in that scene but more "prove of concept" to show off their SSGI technique and how dynamic it is. Would have been kinda neat if they had changed their ToD setting next something to like an evening sun (from the strong midday sun) and see how that would have affected the indirect light.

What I meant by one bounce being enough is refering to current high-end GPUs, I mean even CE2 can do some pretty damn impressive and photorealistic visuals if done right and aimed for it and it doesn't even have SSGI (afaik) plus who knows, maybe when we have the hardware it will be quite easy to remove this limiation of one light bounce?

BTW, I fully agree that in static scenes, like highend render images the difference of having multiple light bounces should be quite huge, especially if you can compare them "side by side".
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Old 08-13-09, 08:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

Tell you what though, i've seen some crysis maps that have been run in the Cryengine 3 on console and i'm really begining to see the advantage of this GI solution.

If you ignore the crappy cosolised grass/resolution/lack of AA&AF and take a look at the wall next to the plants, i like this alot.

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Old 08-13-09, 11:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

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Because of this:


BTW, for real GI you need Ray tracing method.
This is basically doing raytracing but skipping the inbetween calculations. It is effectively simulating a single light bounce by using spherics harmonics equations (heavily simplified to give a very low resolution 1 bounce), which if done without approximation would need you to trace rays. However, this is much faster, and while gives lower quality, is a huge improvement over what we had before, which was basically either even simpler methods, like say placing 2ndary weak point lights to simulate bounce, without color bleed, unless it was baked in.

In fact, I'd be very surprised if it isn't doing raycasting to calculate the indirect diffusion.
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Old 08-13-09, 11:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

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Because of this:


BTW, for real GI you need Ray tracing method.
Why? You need to cast rays in order to get the result, but you certainly don't need to use a Ray Tracer to get "real" G.I. You can absolutely have a rasterizer back end, and still cast rays, trace them, whatever.

The only difference between what this is doing and "real" ray tracing, is that this method is basically treating the casts in large swaths. I'm not sure about the details behind the spheric harmonics rt indirect diffuse sensors, but they are obviously using G.I philosophy, and the method is derived from offline or low-fps rt spherics harmonics.
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Old 08-14-09, 01:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheANIMAL View Post
Tell you what though, i've seen some crysis maps that have been run in the Cryengine 3 on console and i'm really begining to see the advantage of this GI solution.

If you ignore the crappy cosolised grass/resolution/lack of AA&AF and take a look at the wall next to the plants, i like this alot.

http://www.incrysis.com/images/stori...ph_2009_03.jpg
Why you know that this is a console screen ? In the PDF there are only two pictures of the 360 and PS3 - gi on/off . And your screen is a low resolution screen of the PDF, scaling to bigger resolution .

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crappy cosolised grass/resolution/lack of AA&AF
LOL

The screen of the console version


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Old 08-14-09, 11:12 AM   #30
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

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Originally Posted by pakotlar View Post
Why? You need to cast rays in order to get the result, but you certainly don't need to use a Ray Tracer to get "real" G.I. You can absolutely have a rasterizer back end, and still cast rays, trace them, whatever.

The only difference between what this is doing and "real" ray tracing, is that this method is basically treating the casts in large swaths. I'm not sure about the details behind the spheric harmonics rt indirect diffuse sensors, but they are obviously using G.I philosophy, and the method is derived from offline or low-fps rt spherics harmonics.
Simple, you can't achieve physically accurate GI without Ray tracing. I'm not talking about rasterization tricks which must be used to approximate some efects using reflections maps instead of real reflection for example.
Rasterization will never be able to achieve correct reflections/refractions on all objects.
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Old 08-18-09, 05:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3





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Old 08-19-09, 02:17 AM   #32
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Default Re: Awesome Global Illumination in Cryengine 3

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Originally Posted by Ancient76 View Post
Simple, you can't achieve physically accurate GI without Ray tracing. I'm not talking about rasterization tricks which must be used to approximate some efects using reflections maps instead of real reflection for example.
Rasterization will never be able to achieve correct reflections/refractions on all objects.
There have been many radiosity solutions which work by rasterization, so it is possible.
You just rasterize view from a patch, take average and save it.
One can also archive as many bounces as you wish with the method, even with the specularities.

Very similar way to how you do it in ray-tracing except you do not shoot rays.
Doing it in realtime application is completely different thing.
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