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Old 11-09-09, 02:28 PM   #13
TheBlackCat
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

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I really apologize that RandR 1.2+ support on NVIDIA has been so long in coming. When it first came up, the urgency didn't seem very high, because we already had our dynamic TwinView support. Then, numerous other projects came up and took precedence. Since then, RandR has suffered from hovering just below the cut-line.
I really hope we can get back to this soon.
"Soon", isn't that is what they said two and a half years ago when they claimed they were working on it? That is also what they said a year ago when they again said they were working on it. It is not so much the lack of progress that bothers me, it is the empty promises. If they tell us they are going to do something, they should do it. If they don't think it is worth doing, they shouldn't tell us that they think it is worth doing. Telling us you are going to do something and then not doing it for two and a half years is not acceptable, especially when it means the driver lacks major functionality for a large portion of your user base (everyone using laptops). I always assumed that they had been slowly working on it, but it just took a long time. But learning that they haven't even started is really frustrating.
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Old 11-10-09, 12:36 AM   #14
ppurka
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

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Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
"Soon", isn't that is what they said two and a half years ago when they claimed they were working on it?
There is no need to complain. The nvidia drivers had a working solution (dynamic twinview) even before xrandr-1.2 was available. Just because the xrandr support is missing does not imply that the functionality is not there.
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Old 11-10-09, 01:27 PM   #15
TheBlackCat
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

Yes, there is a need to complain. If they did not think the functionality was important, they should have told us that from the beginning instead of repeatedly stating that supporting it was a priority. As I said in my previous post, it isn't just a matter of not supporting randr 1.2, it is a matter of telling us they were going to, telling us they think it is important, and then doing absolutely nothing for years.

Second, twinview does not have all the functionality present in randr. Ignoring the fact that it does not integrate at all with the numerous screen configurations utilities present on modern Linux systems, all of which use randr nowadays, it also lacks basic functionality like being able to set the screen configuration on login. You have to edit your xorg.conf to get that, which means you lose a lot of flexibility and it means you need root access. There is no user-level way to preserve your screen configuration between sessions with twinview.
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Old 11-11-09, 12:26 AM   #16
ppurka
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

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Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
Second, twinview does not have all the functionality present in randr. Ignoring the fact that it does not integrate at all with the numerous screen configurations utilities present on modern Linux systems, all of which use randr nowadays, it also lacks basic functionality like being able to set the screen configuration on login. You have to edit your xorg.conf to get that, which means you lose a lot of flexibility and it means you need root access. There is no user-level way to preserve your screen configuration between sessions with twinview.
There is a perfectly well-functioning graphical utility called nvidia-settings which lets you set your screen configuration. This utility can even create an xorg.conf with your current configuration. The only part which is at root-level is the writing to xorg.conf part.

The other options that can be configured via nvidia-settings are actually stored in your ~/.nvidia-settings-rc file. These settings can be loaded by making your WM or DE call "nvidia-settings -l" on login.

nvidia's configuration is also exposed at some level. Hence there is this utility called disper (look around in this forum) which is a command line utility that can change your resolution on the fly (for example on login).

It is entirely inaccurate to assume that a large portion of xrandr functionality is missing when you use nvidia's drivers.
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Old 11-11-09, 06:27 PM   #17
TheBlackCat
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

As I said, changes to your graphics setup must either be written globally to your xorg.conf, which means they require root access and apply to all users, or are lost on reboot. There is no user-level tool that allows you to keep your configuration across sessions, and editing your xorg.conf is a fairly rigid and inflexible way to do things.

As for disper, it shouldn't have to exist in the first place. Nvidia users should be able to use the same configuration tools users of every other type of graphics hardware use.

And that still doesn't justify Nvidia developers telling us that they were going to give us randr support, that they considered it important, when they didn't.
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Old 11-11-09, 09:20 PM   #18
ppurka
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

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Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
As I said, changes to your graphics setup must either be written globally to your xorg.conf, which means they require root access and apply to all users, or are lost on reboot. There is no user-level tool that allows you to keep your configuration across sessions, and editing your xorg.conf is a fairly rigid and inflexible way to do things.

As for disper, it shouldn't have to exist in the first place. Nvidia users should be able to use the same configuration tools users of every other type of graphics hardware use.

And that still doesn't justify Nvidia developers telling us that they were going to give us randr support, that they considered it important, when they didn't.
If the only thing that you are worried about is setting your own resolution on login, have you even *tried* doing so with xrandr? It works.

It seems you are quite blind to the tools I have mentioned that already work well. This is my last attempt to help you (and drill some sense into you), and my last reply to your comments.

EDIT:If the problem is more than just setting a resolution on login, then use disper.
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Old 11-12-09, 10:44 AM   #19
TheBlackCat
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support



Are you intentionally ignoring me? I don't care whether there is some third-party command-line tool to work around the limitations in the nVidia drivers. nVidia has said repeatedly over the last two and a half years that they were going to do something. They didn't. They said it was important. Now they say it wasn't.

From here http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NjkwMw a year ago (that is the same website that did these recent questions):
Quote:
We don't know when NVIDIA will officially introduce this feature in their Linux driver (and likely Solaris and FreeBSD too), but they classify it as a top priority feature.
Or from here, two and a half years ago http://www.abclinuxu.cz/clanky/rozho...nvidia?page=1:
Quote:
Andy Ritger: Thanks for asking. Some of the improvements that we plan for the Linux driver over the coming months include:
...
* RandR 1.2 support; this will layer on top of the NVIDIA X driver's current dynamic display configuration support.
But now they are saying it was never a priority, never important to them. Then why did they tell us it was? In these set of questions he said flat-out that they never considered it that important, that it "has suffered from hovering just below the cut-line", yet a year ago nVidia told the same website that it was a "top-priority feature". They said it would appear "in the coming months" almost 30 months ago. I've been saying it for months now: nVidia linux developers are terrible at communication. Is it really that much to ask that nVidia give us updates on features more than once a year, or to at least give us updates that accurately reflect their real plans and priorities? Rather than apologize, shouldn't he be giving us some sort of specific time-frame we can expect to see it in and then actually stick to that?

I don't care that much that it hasn't been implemented, what I care about is that they told us they were going to implement it and then didn't, told us it was a top-priority when it wasn't. If they had said it is a low-priority feature from the beginning, I wouldn't be so upset right now. It isn't that they didn't do it, it is that they didn't do it even though they said they were going to repeatedly, and then left us in the dark for a year, ignored repeated requests for information, and then told us it was never really in their plans to begin with. That is not how you build trust with your users, that is how you wreck trust with your users.
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Old 11-12-09, 07:56 PM   #20
MarioHDTV
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Default Re: NVIDIA Developer Talks Openly About Linux Support

I try to make a HTPC with mythbuntu its working on a computer monitor but not on a CRT TV because of the poor Nvidea driver. I connect by the Svideo output. The screen is overscan my TV i lost aproximatly 10 to 20 % of the screen all around so i cant use linux on a normal Sony 32 inch tv . The same card work very well on Windows. I seen a lot of peaple with the same problem on this site but Nvidea doesn't work on this problem. I quit linux very disapointed about the Nvidea support. this is my last Nvidea card next time i will by an ATI card.

I send a bug report to Nvidea support they dont reply.........

Next time you dont be a part of my computer.

see the forum
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=132622

Conclusion : If you wnat to build an HTPC dont try to used the S-video output of the nvidea card its symply a lost of time.
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