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Old 12-17-09, 09:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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Originally Posted by Lyme View Post
Because you were there.

Better hardware, more expensive to make, and a better deal, does not make the ps3 a better console when your definition is: appropriate for the market. Appropriate is defined by the market, and the market has been speaking for years.
This still has no relation to what I said. I called it a better deal.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
This still has no relation to what I said. I called it a better deal.
Depends what you consider a better deal.

People who buy a Wii would say that getting the console with motion control out of box is a better deal.

People who buy a 360 would say that getting the console with the best online multiplayer, widest game selection, and most online services/content is a better deal.

You could argue PS3 is a better deal in terms of strict hardware with Blu-ray, but this:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=11319406

...makes that argument much more difficult to make. Not to mention PS3 can't deinterlace 1080i Blu-ray Discs (i.e. UFC, live concerts/events, any 30fps/HD Video content, etc) so those titles will be of lower quality than the typical blu-ray standalone on most HDTVs if you use a PS3. So while you do get Blu-ray in PS3, its not the best A/V quality Blu-ray available.

I've heard the wifi argument too, but PS3's wifi is limited to b/g which sucks compared to n (which I personally use for 360 and my whole home network) - so for me that would be a worthless unused feature.

In the end the hardware argument only goes so far when other companies are delivering better experiences with less hardware and lower prices.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Depends what you consider a better deal.

People who buy a Wii would say that getting the console with motion control out of box is a better deal.

People who buy a 360 would say that getting the console with the best online service and widest game selection is a better deal.

You could argue PS3 is a better deal with Blu-ray, but this:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=11319406

...makes that argument much more difficult to make.


I've heard the wifi argument too, but PS3's wifi is limited to b/g which sucks compared to n (which I personally use for 360 and my whole home network) - so for me that would be a worthless unused feature.
First off, that BD player is $80. Add that to the cost of the 360 Pro. Now add the cost of the WiFi B/G adapter ($50 now). Now we are at around $380-$400. Add $50 for one year of online play. Now we are at close to $450. PS3 offers the same thing for $300. Sure, I can see the subjective perspective, but from a numbers standpoint, the PS3 is the best deal.

Also I don't consider your wireless N argument to be legitimate since the majority of homes don't even have N routers. And oh, you have N on your 360? Add $40 to what I said since the N adapter is around $90. Now you're at close to $500.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:16 AM   #28
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
First off, that BD player is $80. Add that to the cost of the 360 Pro.
Why add the cost? You are getting two completely seperate pieces of hardware. Many people would much prefer to do their movie watching on a dedicated player instead of a video game machine. If your PS3 breaks, guess what you lose both your games AND your movies. With two seperated if one or the other breaks you don't lose your entire entertainment system in one shot.

Plus as stated earlier, the PS3 offers poor video quality on some Blu-rays that are encoded 1080i - such as UFC, live concerts/events, any 30fps/HD video material - as PS3 cannot deinterlace 1080i Blu-rays and passes it to the HDTV to deinterlace (which most TVs fail at miserably to save costs). The DVD upconversion on PS3 is also terrible compared to standalone alternatives. So basically you are trying to sell someone on needing the PS3 Blu-ray player when many standalones offer a superior A/V experience. My standalone Blu-ray player completely murders the PS3 in overall A/V quality, so PS3's Blu-ray would be worth $0 to me.

Quote:
Now add the cost of the WiFi B/G adapter ($50 now). Now we are at around $380-$400. Add $50 for one year of online play. Now we are at close to $450. PS3 offers the same thing for $300. Sure, I can see the subjective perspective, but from a numbers standpoint, the PS3 is the best deal.
B/G Wifi is an outdated technology and would be worth $0 to me. Again you try to make the PS3 seem a better value by assuming people will go with the more outdated/lesser technology because it is free.

While not everyone has 802.11n, as I stated in my post above, wifi and Blu-ray mean jack to many people considering that there are higher quality Blu-ray standalones and faster external wireless adapters. PS3 seems like a great value to you, but to others it does not.

Quote:
Also your wireless N argument is crap considering how 90% of homes don't even have N routers. And oh, you have N on your 360? Add $40 to what I said since the N adapter is around $90. Now you're at close to $500.
I'd need to add the same $90 to the PS3 for a linksys 802.11n wireless game adapter because b/g sucks for high bitrate HD wireless video streaming, which I frequently use.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Why add the cost? You are getting two completely seperate pieces of hardware. Many people would much prefer to do their movie watching on a dedicated player instead of a video game machine. If your PS3 breaks, guess what you lose both your games AND your movies. With two seperated if one or the other breaks you don't lose your entire entertainment system in one shot.
Huh? If you get both you're still paying the same as adding the costs.

Quote:
Plus as stated earlier, the PS3 offers poor video quality on some Blu-rays that are encoded 1080i - such as UFC, live concerts/events, any 30fps/HD video material - as PS3 cannot deinterlace 1080i Blu-rays and passes it to the HDTV to deinterlace (which most TVs fail at miserably to save costs). The DVD upconversion on PS3 is also terrible compared to standalone alternatives. So basically you are trying to sell someone on needing the PS3 Blu-ray player when many standalones offer a superior A/V experience. My standalone Blu-ray player completely murders the PS3 in overall A/V quality, so PS3's Blu-ray would be worth $0 to me.
First off, so your knowledge of the PS3 quality is from, what, websites? Do you own one?

Second, the DVD upconversion works pretty well from my experience. I wouldn't know about the 1080i material, since all my BD's are 1080/24p.

Quote:
B/G Wifi is an outdated technology and would be worth $0 to me. Again you try to make the PS3 seem a better value by assuming people will go with the more outdated/lesser technology because it is free.
No, I assume people will go with outdated/lesser technology because that's what they have and if **** works for them they don't see the need to upgrade.

Quote:
While not everyone has 802.11n, as I stated in my post above, wifi and Blu-ray mean jack to many people considering that there are higher quality Blu-ray standalones and faster external wireless adapters. PS3 seems like a great value to you, but to others it does not.
Sure, but the majority of people prefer packages where they don't have to buy things separately.

Quote:
I'd need to add the same $90 to the PS3 for a linksys 802.11n wireless game adapter because b/g sucks for high bitrate HD wireless video streaming, which I frequently use.
Yea I have seen some threads where people talk about dropping signal on G. But I wouldn't know about that since I have a wired connection to both consoles.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

Hey Ruined. You should also factor in the cost of a second and third console before your first even breaks down (which it will), because when, not if, it breaks, "OMGZ UR INTIER ENTERTANEMINT SISTEM IS GOEN!@!"
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Old 12-17-09, 10:51 AM   #31
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
Huh? If you get both you're still paying the same as adding the costs.
You are paying the same, but you are also getting more with two seperate boxes. With PS3 you get one machine that does games and Blu-ray. If that machine breaks or you want to get rid of it, you lose both ability to play games and movies. If you buy a 360 and a Blu-ray player, you get two seperate machines so if either one breaks you still have the other one for entertainment; same goes if you want to dump either one. With two boxes you also have two seperate optical drives - thus there is less chance having optical issues as having two seperate drives puts less time on each respective drive for games and movies; this is relevant since, as you probably know, one of the frequent reasons PS3's break down is due to BDROM failure.

Quote:
First off, so your knowledge of the PS3 quality is from, what, websites? Do you own one?

Second, the DVD upconversion works pretty well from my experience.
Knowledge of basic featureset as well as benchmark tests; the PS3 miserably failed DVD deinterlacing tests on the site most famous for its DVD upconversion tests even after its FW2.1 DVD-engine overhaul:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/dvd-p...rk-review.html

To quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secrets of HiFi
The Sony PS3 continues to have extremely poor results in our SD DVD tests. The fact of the matter is, it just cannot lock onto a high resolution test pattern for any of our cadence tests. This is worse performance than we see with even sub-$50 players at your local big box store.
...subjective tests I've read by people who have A/B compared PS3 dvd upcon to good quality players has been similar. Since I have been using Reon-and-above quality upconversion for some time, that is unsatisfactory for me. It is also unsatsifactory that the PS3 can't even output native 480i over HDMI so there is no hope of using an external scaler, either. Of course you could buy a seperate player for high quality DVD upconversion, but that would defeat your argument.

Quote:
I wouldn't know about the 1080i material, since all my BD's are 1080/24p.
Well, I love music and UFC, so having a player that fails at 1080i/live content is not really an option for me since you can only store 24fps (film) @ progressive resolution and be BD-spec compliant. If it is 30fps live or HD video it *must* be encoded 1080i60 to be spec compliant

Quote:
No, I assume people will go with outdated/lesser technology because that's what they have and if **** works for them they don't see the need to upgrade.
Well again, thats what I said on my above post you responded to on this page:
"Depends what you consider a better deal."

For me these extras you speak of are worth absolutely nothing because I already have superior hardware to the extras you mentoned included in the PS3.

Quote:
Sure, but the majority of people prefer packages where they don't have to buy things separately.
Then why is PS3 last in sales?

Quote:
Yea I have seen some threads where people talk about dropping signal on G. But I wouldn't know about that since I have a wired connection to both consoles.
Wired is nice but if you live in a big apt/home its a massive and often unrealistic investment to wire the whole house, so if you want to serve HD media to the home 802.11n is a massive benefit.
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Old 12-17-09, 09:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

For someone who doesn't care Magus seems to be getting all emotionally invested in this topic.

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I think they can next year actually... They are only 7 million units behind worldwide and since the price drop this is the first time the X360 came out on top (in the US, worldwide PS has had the lead month after month)
Only 7 million? only 7 million....

Quote:
and with GT releasing next year thats a console seller in Europe...
GTA 4 didn't move much hardware, Halo 3 didn't move much hardware. Also GT was a console seller on the PSX and PS2. Sony is struggling to have its PS3 games resonate with its target audience.

You also seem to be conveniently forgetting that MS is having its own ****ty relaunch next year with natal.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

At the end of the day, Nintendo is making money from the Wii and has a fun product. Microsoft is making money from the Xbox and they have the best online experience. Sony continues to lose money on the PS3 but have the best all-around entertainment system.
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Old 12-18-09, 12:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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At the end of the day, Nintendo is making money from the Wii and has a fun product. Microsoft is making money from the Xbox and they have the best online experience. Sony continues to lose money on the PS3 but have the best all-around entertainment system.
I can agree with that.
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Old 12-18-09, 01:56 AM   #35
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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I can agree with that.
How dare you say the Wii is fun?! BLASPHEMER!
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Old 12-18-09, 09:47 AM   #36
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Default Re: NPD console data for November 2009

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How dare you say the Wii is fun?! BLASPHEMER!


Ok, the Wii is fun as a party console. By yourself, the Wii is not fun at all.
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