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Old 01-24-10, 01:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

I was surprised by Crossfire setup. In my experience crossfire scales really well, i will probably add one more HD5870 card.
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Old 01-24-10, 02:26 PM   #74
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2 View Post
How does stating the facts give me red-tinted glasses? You and Sowk said that 285 SLI was comparable to a 5970; I simply showed that it isn't. In some cases, a 5970 is 3x as fast as a 285. In most, it's at least twice as fast, and you will hardly ever see SLI on the 285 scale to 100%.

Simple deductive logic. Has nothing to do with being biased toward one company or the other.



You don't want to "rekindle" anything, yet you repeatedly ignore facts that are right in front of you. In most cases, a 5970 is at least twice as strong as a GTX285, and in some cases it is three times as strong. Given that SLI will almost never scale better than 80% in most titles, how does that equate to "aren't that far behind?"



And here we go again. Are you really serious? "It keeps up?" Where, exactly? In one benchmark test? (Guru3D)?

Where are the rest of the tests that show this? Again, one case doesn't make a trend, especially when that review appears to be the outlier among other reviews that can be accessed across the web.

I've not seen another review yet that repeats Guru3Ds findings. If you can find one, then I would really like to see it. Honestly. But until I do, I will keep firm with my stance.



No, because it's not necessary. You'd like me to, because then you could use your one little benchmark over at Guru3D to prove your point since there are hardly any 285 SLI benches out there that do a direct comparison to 5970. But it makes no sense to deduce that you can't accurately gauge how an SLI setup would run by simply doubling the performance of a 285 (SLI = 2x,) or is that math too complicated for you?



Yes, because guys with red-tinted glasses often spend 1200$ on Nvidia cards and 300$ on waterblocks to fit Nvidia cards to build watercooled SLI systems:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...oject+poseidon

And they often praise the architecture of their upcoming competitor:



And they often rip on their own drivers while praising their competition's drivers:



http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...08&postcount=9

Yes, I'm clearly biased.



It's not overclocking. Read the PCPer article again:



They're not "overclocking" the card; they're setting it at its factory-rated speeds. The card is downclocked on both the memory and the GPU to slide in under power specs. This was not the case with GTX285; it was already running at its factory rated speeds.

You can pick and choose the "facts" that support your argument but your opinions really don't matter to me and I couldn't care less whether you've said "nice things" about Nvidia.

What does that have to do with anything?

As I've repeatedly told you, I've done my own testing and it's in line with G3Ds. The 5970 just isn't that much faster (but it is slightly faster). 10-15% faster against 18 month old technology might get you excited but it doesn't do much for me.

As I said the last time, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thanks



PS : Maybe you should write to Hilbert (the owner of G3D) and tell him he doesn't know how to do benchmarks properly
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Old 01-24-10, 03:12 PM   #75
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

This may cause some to not include the "5970 are meant to run that fast" argument when basing their purchase decisions with dx11 cards:


"AMD's product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD OverDrive™ or ATI OverDrive™ software"

http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/DESKT...-overview.aspx
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Old 01-24-10, 03:30 PM   #76
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slytat View Post
You can pick and choose the "facts" that support your argument but your opinions really don't matter to me and I couldn't care less whether you've said "nice things" about Nvidia.

What does that have to do with anything?

As I've repeatedly told you, I've done my own testing and it's in line with G3Ds. The 5970 just isn't that much faster (but it is slightly faster). 10-15% faster against 18 month old technology might get you excited but it doesn't do much for me.

As I said the last time, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thanks



PS : Maybe you should write to Hilbert (the owner of G3D) and tell him he doesn't know how to do benchmarks properly

Then i guess you'll also be dissapointed with Fermi,since it might only be slightly faster than a pair of GTX285's in SLI...
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Old 01-24-10, 03:36 PM   #77
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Then i guess you'll also be dissapointed with Fermi,since it might only be slightly faster than a pair of GTX285's in SLI...
You don't know that, I don't know that.

Since I like things such as nHancer, I'm more likely to go with Nvidia when I do my spring upgrade but I've already bought 2 x 5870 and a 5970 so I'm hardly taking sides. I'd be happy if they were faster than they are to be perfectly honest with you.

PS : One thing to remember is that Fermi is a single GPU, so if it's faster than 285 SLI, it'll be kicking ATI squarely in the virtual bollocks as it takes a 2 GPU 5970 to beat 285 SLI.
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Old 01-24-10, 04:43 PM   #78
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Originally Posted by Slytat View Post
You can pick and choose the "facts" that support your argument but your opinions really don't matter to me and I couldn't care less whether you've said "nice things" about Nvidia.

What does that have to do with anything?
Guy, you are really dense.

You claim that I have "red-tinted" glasses; THAT'S what it has to do with it. Guys who have "red-tinted glasses" don't go buying 1,500$ worth of Nvidia hardware or say nice things about the company left and right.

And, once again, you're confusing opinion with fact. It is a fact that 5970 is significantly faster than 285 SLI in several titles. This has been clearly shown from the links that I've already provided.

Quote:
As I've repeatedly told you, I've done my own testing and it's in line with G3Ds.
And again, I don't care WHAT you've done, because you are not a reputable source, now are you? You expect me and everyone here to take your word for something as being objective and proof? Why? Because you say so?

What proof have you offered that we can take seriously? I haven't seen graphs, screenshots with frame counters, framerate logs, anything. All I have to go on is what you're saying, and to this point, you haven't really shown me that you're trustworthy.

Quote:
PS : Maybe you should write to Hilbert (the owner of G3D) and tell him he doesn't know how to do benchmarks properly
Ok. I'll do that when you write to Anandtech, FiringSquad, and all the other sites out there that show different than what Guru3D showed.
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Old 01-24-10, 04:57 PM   #79
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion X2 View Post
Guy, you are really dense.

You claim that I have "red-tinted" glasses; THAT'S what it has to do with it. Guys who have "red-tinted glasses" don't go buying 1,500$ worth of Nvidia hardware or say nice things about the company left and right.

And, once again, you're confusing opinion with fact. It is a fact that 5970 is significantly faster than 285 SLI in several titles. This has been clearly shown from the links that I've already provided.



And again, I don't care WHAT you've done, because you are not a reputable source, now are you? You expect me and everyone here to take your word for something as being objective and proof? Why? Because you say so?

What proof have you offered that we can take seriously? I haven't seen graphs, screenshots with frame counters, framerate logs, anything. All I have to go on is what you're saying, and to this point, you haven't really shown me that you're trustworthy.


Ok. I'll do that when you write to Anandtech, FiringSquad, and all the other sites out there that show different than what Guru3D showed.
I don't mind a friendly disagreement but when the insults start I have to draw the line so lets just go our separate ways. I'm sure we both have better things to do than argue about video cards

PS : JFYI, I never asked for any endorsements from you or anybody else here, I stated my experiences and was not looking for any validation. Do you really think I care if they meet with your approval? (That's a resounding "I don't" in case you were in any doubt).

PPS : 10-15% is not significant in my opinion but that's subjective. Obviously you think it is and you are entitled to that opinion.

See ya
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Old 01-24-10, 05:23 PM   #80
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slytat View Post
You don't know that, I don't know that.

Since I like things such as nHancer, I'm more likely to go with Nvidia when I do my spring upgrade but I've already bought 2 x 5870 and a 5970 so I'm hardly taking sides. I'd be happy if they were faster than they are to be perfectly honest with you.

PS : One thing to remember is that Fermi is a single GPU, so if it's faster than 285 SLI, it'll be kicking ATI squarely in the virtual bollocks as it takes a 2 GPU 5970 to beat 285 SLI.
You have 2 5870's AND a 5970?



Why?

Plus you yourself said that a single 5970 is about as a fast as sli'd 285's. Now you are saying it takes 2 x 5970 to beat an sli'd pair of 285's?
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Old 01-24-10, 05:27 PM   #81
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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You have 2 5870's AND a 5970?



Why?

Plus you yourself said that a single 5970 is about as a fast as sli'd 285's. Now you are saying it takes 2 x 5970 to beat an sli'd pair of 285's?
Thats not what I said, read it again (I said a 2 GPU 5970 not 2 5970s). 2 x 5970 levels anything out there.

I have all kinds of hardware and several PCs, it's a hobby of mine like many others here.

PS : I don't have the 5870s anymore and the 5970 will likely be going as well depending on how good Fermi is
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Old 01-24-10, 06:50 PM   #82
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slytat View Post
You don't know that, I don't know that.

Since I like things such as nHancer, I'm more likely to go with Nvidia when I do my spring upgrade but I've already bought 2 x 5870 and a 5970 so I'm hardly taking sides. I'd be happy if they were faster than they are to be perfectly honest with you.

PS : One thing to remember is that Fermi is a single GPU, so if it's faster than 285 SLI, it'll be kicking ATI squarely in the virtual bollocks as it takes a 2 GPU 5970 to beat 285 SLI.

What does it matter if it's a dual GPU or a single one?....What matters is the perfomance delivered,and so far it seems below that of the HD5970 card,so if you're dissapointed with that in terms of performance,how would you be satisfied with Fermi,regardless of it being a single GPU card.


Maybe i'm getting old here,but that sounds like a double standard,and one that's been used ever since ATI released the HD3870 X2 cards about 2 years ago,and doing so while forgetting that Nvidia already released 3 dual GPU cards so far,ironically,to beat ATI's dual GPU cards in fact...
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Old 01-24-10, 07:02 PM   #83
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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What does it matter if it's a dual GPU or a single one?....What matters is the perfomance delivered,and so far it seems below that of the HD5970 card,so if you're dissapointed with that in terms of performance,how would you be satisfied with Fermi,regardless of it being a single GPU card.


Maybe i'm getting old here,but that sounds like a double standard,and one that's been used ever since ATI released the HD3870 X2 cards about 2 years ago,and doing so while forgetting that Nvidia already released 3 dual GPU cards so far,ironically,to beat ATI's dual GPU cards in fact...
What double standard?

First of all, when I do comparisons, I compare on a GPU vs GPU basis.

1 Fermi is likely going to be slower than the 5970 but the 5970 is essentially 2 cards so, unlike yourself, I compare them GPU vs GPU and since the 5970 has 2, I'm going to compare 2 x Fermi or the GTX395 (which will most likely have some kind of gimping).

If you are going to compare the Fermi to an ATI card, it should be the 5870. This belief that Fermi has to beat the 5970 in order to be a success is ridiculous and it certainly wasn't applied to ATI when they released the 5xxx series as even their 2 GPU card doesn't beat SLI by that much and their 5870 can't even best the aging 295 let alone 285s in SLI. I think it is you who is indulging in a double standard here mate, not me.
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Old 01-24-10, 08:01 PM   #84
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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What double standard?

First of all, when I do comparisons, I compare on a GPU vs GPU basis.

1 Fermi is likely going to be slower than the 5970 but the 5970 is essentialy 2 cards so, unlike yourself, I compare them GPU vs GPU and since the 5970 has 2, I'm going to compare 2 x Fermi or the GTX395 (which will most likely have some kind of gimping).

If you are going to compare the Fermi to an ATI card, it should be the 5870. This belief that Fermi has to beat the 5970 in order to be a success is ridiculous and it certainly wasn't applied to ATI when they released the 58xx series as even their 2 GPU card doesn't beat SLI by that much. I think it is you who is indulging in a double standard here mate, not me.
We'll have to wait on pricing to decide which card that Fermi is going to compete with. Price is going to be the chief factor for determing which card Fermi is going to compete with. If nvidia is able to work some miracle and keep Fermi from being stupidly expensive, then it will compete with the 5870. Otherwise, it will compete with the 5970.

Forget the fact that the 5970 has 2 chips, because that is irrelevant. Performance is performance, and if you want it, you have to pay for it.
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