Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by CaptNKILL

Actually, ATI being due for a refresh is a perfectly good reason for nvidia to keep performance numbers a secret.

As soon as we know how Fermi will perform, ATI will have something to set their sights on and will put their refresh cards out as soon as possible.

The longer nvidia keeps ATI in the dark, the less time ATI will have to match or beat their performance.

I don't believe so,since whatever the refresh is,the specifications they will have as the aim to hopefully hit will have already been decided upon fairly long ago,regardless of when fermi is actually released or how it performs....Basically they'll be doing the best they can with what they have,while still having good yeilds and making money,which is the whole point of the excercise.


Even ATI's CEO has already admitted that while he feels confident that the company will hold on to the speed crown for most of 2010,not only given the products they have now,but the ones they have coming in the pipeline,he also already went on record as saying that Nvidia might have the lead for a limited period of time during 2010.


Basically,he's already assuming the worst case scenario and thinking that Fermi will be the fastest single GPU on the market for a while,so there's not really much to gain by keeping the fermi benchmarks a secret,and in fact a lot to lose since it's so delayed to begin with,and it's potential reign as the fastest card is getting shorter by the week with all the delays.

[lee63]

I just wanna see some #'s....either I get another 5870 or a couple of 480's

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Rollo

And with each click he can tell his owners (ATi) that he served them well.

I don't have Fermi card yet, but Charlie's article doesn't make me feel bad about the prospect even if every word is true.

Here's why:

5% faster overall than a HD5870: 5870s are very fast cards, 5% faster wouldn't suck. It would be approximately the speed of a GTX295, which would be in line with pretty much every other next gen launch I can remember. (little faster in some games, little slower in others than last gen SLi)

So waiting 6+ months for a card that's only 5% faster on average in real world gaming,and uses 280 watts of power in the process,versus a competitors card using 100 watts less,is considered a victory is it?.....Moving the goal posts much there?


Imagine enthusiasts like ourselves going towards SLI or triple SLI setups using GTX480 cards at 280 watts a pop,and those 3 cards alone can be pulling 840 watts as a worst case scenario,and still being beat performance wise by a quad crossfire setup using 2 HD5970 cards using about 600 watts between both cards,maybe 700 watts once you overclock them pretty hard.

Double the DX11 performance of a 5870: that speaks for itself, just amazing. If single chip NV offers double chip ATi DX11, imagine what double chip NV will offer? ZOMG

That was only shown with tesselation ability and it's cool that at least in that one aspect,it's so much faster than ATI's cards,but by the time games actually use enough tesselation to show that difference,both companies will be releasing GPU's far more advanced than these anyhow,so no high end enthusiast will care,as they'll have moved on since then.

Hotter: Yawn. I'm a freaking enthusiast. I don't try to stuff my expensive parts into an old Compaq desktop case with one fan.

Then get started on going water cooling the cards even if overclocking them isn't part of the plan,imagine if you want to overclock them...

Power: Again yawn. For the same reasons I have good cases, I have good power supplies. I advise all people who want to run high end graphics and CPUs to do the same.

Well,840 watts for a triple SLI,then add the power use of a highly overclocked CPU,the motherboard needs,the ram,optical drives and hardrive/SSD setup,not to mention the water cooling power needs for the pump and fans,and don't stop until you hit power supplies rated for 1500 watts...You know,the ones that cost 400$ on their own.


And while you're at it,plug the PC in it's own dedicated power circuit within the house,since most of those use a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts,which outputs 1800 watts max,and power supplies are never 100% efficient(usually around 85% efficient these days),so that uber PC will suck all the juice from that wall socket on it's own.


No lights in the room,or large TV's,or audio/home theatre system unless you're also willing to hire a contractor to modify the electrical system in the house...

Cost/losing money: As much as I like my buddies at NVIDIA, I won't lose sleep if they lose money selling consumer GTX480s at first. My guess is a. they'll figure a way to make money anyway, perhaps with those excellent Quadros that totally own the professional market b. they'll make more money with each revision c. the closer they are to ATi pricing, the more cards they'll sell as they are the market leader with the name recognition in the masses anyway.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I bet if someone was REALLY bored they could go through my old posts find me "predicting" that when Fermi launches, ATi guys will be back to saying "NVIDIA cards cost too much to make! NVIDIA cards are too hot!"

Guess I can see the future, just like Charlie.

If they do lose money on each one they sell,you can bet that the volumes for the Geforce lineup will always be limited,and most chips will be used for quadro's and Tesla market,as Nvidia isn't stupid or suicidal enough to do gaming enthusiasts favors and lose money for them selling these at ~400$.


If the article is true,then this first generation Fermi card is dead in a water as a Geforce product basically,and look for 2nd generation products using 32nm or even 28 nm soon after....ATI will make sure they'll need them with the northern islands GPU's potentially being released by the end of the year.

[Johnny C]

Originally Posted by lee63

I just wanna see some #'s....either I get another 5870 or a couple of 480's

Me too....

[Sazar]

Originally Posted by Rollo

And with each click he can tell his owners (ATi) that he served them well.

I don't have Fermi card yet, but Charlie's article doesn't make me feel bad about the prospect even if every word is true.

Here's why:

5% faster overall than a HD5870: 5870s are very fast cards, 5% faster wouldn't suck. It would be approximately the speed of a GTX295, which would be in line with pretty much every other next gen launch I can remember. (little faster in some games, little slower in others than last gen SLi)

Double the DX11 performance of a 5870: that speaks for itself, just amazing. If single chip NV offers double chip ATi DX11, imagine what double chip NV will offer? ZOMG

Hotter: Yawn. I'm a freaking enthusiast. I don't try to stuff my expensive parts into an old Compaq desktop case with one fan.

Power: Again yawn. For the same reasons I have good cases, I have good power supplies. I advise all people who want to run high end graphics and CPUs to do the same.

Cost/losing money: As much as I like my buddies at NVIDIA, I won't lose sleep if they lose money selling consumer GTX480s at first. My guess is a. they'll figure a way to make money anyway, perhaps with those excellent Quadros that totally own the professional market b. they'll make more money with each revision c. the closer they are to ATi pricing, the more cards they'll sell as they are the market leader with the name recognition in the masses anyway.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I bet if someone was REALLY bored they could go through my old posts find me "predicting" that when Fermi launches, ATi guys will be back to saying "NVIDIA cards cost too much to make! NVIDIA cards are too hot!"

Guess I can see the future, just like Charlie.

And posts like this REALLY make me miss Chris more. Your posts crap on his memory and the good he did to the community Rollo. I really wish you would take that into consideration everytime you go into one of you "us against them" modes.

I am still waiting to see how Fermi does, personally, but making arbitrary statements like "twice the dx11 performance" while calling Charlie's equally arbitrary statements false is not quite the way to get your point across

The issue now is much like it was during the NV30 and the AMD 2xxx card release timeframe. The cards are late and the assurances and dates provided by the company have been off-base.

Still, even given that, I think people have been quite patient overall.

[Enrico_be]

Uhm, guys pls don't shoot me for posting this. Because I'm so hyped for the new Nvidia cards I'm searching the internet and here and there I stumble upon something interesting ^^

-> *Click me*

It's something that's 1.5 month old and the info should be from an Nvidia software engineer named Rahja but again, credibility is far away I'm affraid. I hope it's not posted yet here.

I would like that the facts (see *click me*) would be true =p ... Also for tomorrow I hope Nvidia gives us more then just "GTX 480 and 470 to launch in March" on their Facebook ^^

ps: Sorry for my bad english.

[Ninja Prime]

Twice the anything performance seems impossible when NVs own handpicked slides showed 60% in the best case possible they could find in anything resembling a real benchmark...

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by shadow001

Even ATI's CEO has already admitted that while he feels confident that the company will hold on to the speed crown for most of 2010,not only given the products they have now,but the ones they have coming in the pipeline,he also already went on record as saying that Nvidia might have the lead for a limited period of time during 2010.

LOL
ATi's CEO says ATi will do well? AMAZING!

Of course he said that without any knowledge of his competitors products.

Maybe he borrowed his favorite employee Charlie Demerjian's crystal ball!

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Rollo

LOL
ATi's CEO says ATi will do well? AMAZING!

Of course he said that without any knowledge of his competitors products.

Maybe he borrowed his favorite employee Charlie Demerjian's crystal ball!

Hey all i know is ATI has been owning Nvidia over the past 5+ months with the highest performance parts on the market right now,and actually managed to launch an entire DX11 lineup of cards from 60$ redwood based GPU's to 600$ + hemlock dual GPU cards,and did that in less than 6 months,something which Nvidia has never done in it's entire history,so can you blame ATI's CEO for being pretty optimistic here....I sure wouldn't.


If the above situation was Nvidia's,you'd bet it's CEO would be shouting it from the rooftops as loud as he could,instead,it's anouncing delays after delays for Fermi,saying that high volume shipments will only happen in the second quarter,and stating that their current DX10,DX10.1 GPU's are enough for the mainstream and value markets,because they're fabulous,when ATI has DX11 GPU's for those markets too.


I know most consumers aren't that informed,but even they can see the difference between a DX10 card and a DX11 one,so which one you think they'll pick?


To wich this scenario applies quite nicely for the past 5 months....Some here have seen it and it is quite funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR45ja_fNzU


In short,Nvidia is getting screwed hard here...

[Enrico_be]

Totally irrelative but quite funny
-> Nvidia GF100 FERMI Pressconference with ATI FANBOYS

josiahsuarez : "is that charlie demerjian before he went bald?" xD

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by Sazar

And posts like this REALLY make me miss Chris more. Your posts crap on his memory and the good he did to the community Rollo. I really wish you would take that into consideration everytime you go into one of you "us against them" modes.

I am still waiting to see how Fermi does, personally, but making arbitrary statements like "twice the dx11 performance" while calling Charlie's equally arbitrary statements false is not quite the way to get your point across

The issue now is much like it was during the NV30 and the AMD 2xxx card release timeframe. The cards are late and the assurances and dates provided by the company have been off-base.

Still, even given that, I think people have been quite patient overall.

How I post has nothing to do with how any other Focus Group member posts, or posted.

It's more than a little unfair and insensitive of you mention my deceased friend. You're either really young, really stupid, or both.

BTW- using false analogy isn't a good debate tactic. For example, in the two cases you noted, the cards launched were lacking in both features and performance. The Fermi cards will be market leaders in both performance per GPU and features. There's a little difference comparing that to two cards that could barely even do AA.

I only quoted Charlie on the 2X DX11 performance, because he said it. He also said it was only in the benchmark, but he said it was a "huge win". I agreed with him in a post I prefaced with "Even if everything he said is true".

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by Enrico_be

Totally irrelative but quite funny
-> Nvidia GF100 FERMI Pressconference with ATI FANBOYS

josiahsuarez : "is that charlie demerjian before he went bald?" xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpWeMhkbka0&NR=1

I like this one as well.