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Old 02-21-10, 07:13 PM   #85
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Default Re: Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

Shadow001-

I'm sort of confused. You seem to know all about final clocks and power requirements of Fermi products, and I'm under NDA with NVIDIA and don't know.

You seem pretty sure of yourself, any sources for this info you can cite who aren't in ATi's employ and mentally challenged to boot?
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Old 02-21-10, 07:34 PM   #86
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Default Re: Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

He's got some of Charlie's magical NDA-less sources I'm sure.

I just have to wonder how Charlie's sources are so accurate. If they can't be trusted to keep an NDA they may not be able to be trusted at all.

Charlie got his 2% yield number at first from a poorly translated Chinese website. Then much later claimed he got this number from insider sources... Well which is it? Yields were probably lousy but it remains to be proven.

It didn't take a genius to figure out that there was no way nvidia would launch Fermi in November 09. But that is really the only thing he has definitely gotten right.

We know the card is going to draw more than 225 W but other than that there has been no proof yet that it is knocking on 300 W's door.

Everyone says oh he's been right on everything up until now. But really the only thing he has gotten right so far is the delay timeframe. We're still waiting to see heat, power draw, performance, and finally initial availability.

Also his latest update seems to be an admission that he was wrong on the 448 cuda core issue. His so-called sources say the GTX 480 had 512 cuda cores.
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Old 02-21-10, 07:58 PM   #87
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Default Re: Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Shadow001-

I'm sort of confused. You seem to know all about final clocks and power requirements of Fermi products, and I'm under NDA with NVIDIA and don't know.

You seem pretty sure of yourself, any sources for this info you can cite who aren't in ATi's employ and mentally challenged to boot?

I'm not sure of anything,and have just been keeping tabs on how painfull the birth of Fermi is being,and yes it's being a huge pain,quoted even by the Nvidia Engineers that are designing the damn thing(read anandtech's articles on it).


The main point is that this isn't 10 years ago when GPU's were screwing around with 10~25million transistor budgets and people were still worried about which model was the better gaming card for the longer run,and had to play games that were already available on store shelves at much more modest settings than we can now,so the wait argument held more water back then so to speak.


Today,we have GPU's with 2 to 3 billion transistors,allowing to play games even on 3 monitors at pretty insane settings,and all the main feature set for 3D effects are controlled by microsoft thru Direct X,so all cards have to support those features anyhow,and do them with good preformance,so with the current environment as it is,the waiting for the better gaming card argument is well behind us,and it's more about who scores the highest benchmarks as this point,so the wating for the miracle card when it's this late and with ATI having such good cards is basically insanity.


I own a pair of HD5970's in quad crossfire,which is simply an insane amount of graphics power for what is primarily a gaming machine,and will likely take years to release games that actually stress these in any meaningfull way on their graphics ability,and even if i didn't have a preferance for ATI cards and was completely neutral on which brand i'd pick,you'd want me to wait 6+ months for Nvidia to get it's act together,and ignore than HD5970's exist altogether?....Hell no.


And that's just on that delay alone,never mind the other rumors regarding it,such as very high power use even by enthusiast standards or ****ty yeilds and still limited quantities for the next couple of months at least,and the final nail in the coffin is if really the average performance of Fermi really is only 5% faster on average than the HD5870,making it more or less look like the same situation that happened with the NV30,even though Nvidia claimed for months it would be the greatest thing ever and was also trash talking the 9700/9800 pro cards as much as possible,and we all know how that turned out didn't we.
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Old 02-21-10, 09:27 PM   #88
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I'm not sure of anything,and have just been keeping tabs on how painfull the birth of Fermi is being,and yes it's being a huge pain,quoted even by the Nvidia Engineers that are designing the damn thing(read anandtech's articles on it).


The main point is that this isn't 10 years ago when GPU's were screwing around with 10~25million transistor budgets and people were still worried about which model was the better gaming card for the longer run,and had to play games that were already available on store shelves at much more modest settings than we can now,so the wait argument held more water back then so to speak.


Today,we have GPU's with 2 to 3 billion transistors,allowing to play games even on 3 monitors at pretty insane settings,and all the main feature set for 3D effects are controlled by microsoft thru Direct X,so all cards have to support those features anyhow,and do them with good preformance,so with the current environment as it is,the waiting for the better gaming card argument is well behind us,and it's more about who scores the highest benchmarks as this point,so the wating for the miracle card when it's this late and with ATI having such good cards is basically insanity.


I own a pair of HD5970's in quad crossfire,which is simply an insane amount of graphics power for what is primarily a gaming machine,and will likely take years to release games that actually stress these in any meaningfull way on their graphics ability,and even if i didn't have a preferance for ATI cards and was completely neutral on which brand i'd pick,you'd want me to wait 6+ months for Nvidia to get it's act together,and ignore than HD5970's exist altogether?....Hell no.


And that's just on that delay alone,never mind the other rumors regarding it,such as very high power use even by enthusiast standards or ****ty yeilds and still limited quantities for the next couple of months at least,and the final nail in the coffin is if really the average performance of Fermi really is only 5% faster on average than the HD5870,making it more or less look like the same situation that happened with the NV30,even though Nvidia claimed for months it would be the greatest thing ever and was also trash talking the 9700/9800 pro cards as much as possible,and we all know how that turned out didn't we.
Heh- I don't care what you buy. I'm not telling anyone to wait, I'm not saying you should have.

It's kind of interesting you're so concerned with the "painful birth" of the Fermi when you already have your 2 X 5970s, not like you'll be switching, is it?

You just want to post FUD about Fermis apparently, try to help out ATi like Charlie. Whatever your reasons, that's fine.

I've played with Fermis, I'll be owning them very soon, and I'm pretty confident I'll enjoy them.

With my cards I can use AA in UE3 games like Batman, I'll be able to do 3d surround when I buy 2 more 2233RZs, and I can use the cool PhysX effects in my Darkest of Days, Batman AA, Mirrors Edge, Cryostasis, Dark Void, UT3, and GRAW2.

Heck, I'd stick with my quad GTX295s or GTX280SLi over your 5970CF this year just to do the things in that sentence.
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Old 02-21-10, 09:49 PM   #89
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Default Re: Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

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Heh- I don't care what you buy. I'm not telling anyone to wait, I'm not saying you should have.

It's kind of interesting you're so concerned with the "painful birth" of the Fermi when you already have your 2 X 5970s, not like you'll be switching, is it?

You just want to post FUD about Fermis apparently, try to help out ATi like Charlie. Whatever your reasons, that's fine.

I've played with Fermis, I'll be owning them very soon, and I'm pretty confident I'll enjoy them.

With my cards I can use AA in UE3 games like Batman, I'll be able to do 3d surround when I buy 2 more 2233RZs, and I can use the cool PhysX effects in my Darkest of Days, Batman AA, Mirrors Edge, Cryostasis, Dark Void, UT3, and GRAW2.

Heck, I'd stick with my quad GTX295s or GTX280SLi over your 5970CF this year just to do the things in that sentence.

The main reason for the painfull birth comment is that ideally,i'd like to see comparisons between both ATI and Nvidia cards before making a final decision either way if i were a consumer that doesn't really care which brand he owns as long as it's the fastest available for that particular time period,and i'm positive that Nvidia would want it that way too.


Like it or hate it, ATI won this round because it's competitor simply wasn't there to begin with,even if we disregard just how much HD5970's kicks ass in raw performance,and it's really that simple...Nvidia missed that train and it's long gone.


In the earlier years,i used to get all worked up about 10~20% performance differences between one card and the next,but these days,given the massive amount of performance available,especially in multi GPU setups,it's all pretty academic since it's far beyond what actual games are using anyhow,so i'd only be interested in an upgrade once setups eventually get 100% faster than what this Quad HD5970 setup can do,and the crazy part is that for all i know,it might happen late this year or early next.


As for UE3 games,i can force AA thru the control panel even if the games don't allow it thru their own in game graphics options list and have a massive amount of rendering power available to do it that way,even if it isn't as efficient in terms of performance.


As for 3D glasses or in game GPU physics,you know and i know it'll only truly take off when there's unified standards for those that work across all hardware,no matter how hard Nvidia tries to push those,and developers also know this.
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Old 02-21-10, 10:30 PM   #90
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The main reason for the painfull birth comment is that ideally,i'd like to see comparisons between both ATI and Nvidia cards before making a final decision either way if i were a consumer that doesn't really care which brand he owns as long as it's the fastest available for that particular time period,and i'm positive that Nvidia would want it that way too.


Like it or hate it, ATI won this round because it's competitor simply wasn't there to begin with,even if we disregard just how much HD5970's kicks ass in raw performance,and it's really that simple...Nvidia missed that train and it's long gone.


In the earlier years,i used to get all worked up about 10~20% performance differences between one card and the next,but these days,given the massive amount of performance available,especially in multi GPU setups,it's all pretty academic since it's far beyond what actual games are using anyhow,so i'd only be interested in an upgrade once setups eventually get 100% faster than what this Quad HD5970 setup can do,and the crazy part is that for all i know,it might happen late this year or early next.


As for UE3 games,i can force AA thru the control panel even if the games don't allow it thru their own in game graphics options list and have a massive amount of rendering power available to do it that way,even if it isn't as efficient in terms of performance.


As for 3D glasses or in game GPU physics,you know and i know it'll only truly take off when there's unified standards for those that work across all hardware,no matter how hard Nvidia tries to push those,and developers also know this.
I'll give you an "A" for trying, but what is it you think you're "winning"?

You or I aren't going to change each others opinions, and we won't change the opinons of people reading this, so is there a point to your speculation and FUD?
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Old 02-21-10, 11:04 PM   #91
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First of all, shadow001 I totally agree w/ you 100%. But you must remember you are posting on an NVidia site and these fanboys have really gotten thier little green egos hurt because ATI has been kicking thier ass the last 6 months w/ the 5000 series cards.

Secondly, Rollo bacause you are an Nvidia fanboy I understand and except your opinion here. After all, this IS an NVidia site.

I say let's just agree to disagree. HOWEVER, noone in there right mind can ignore the facts. As it stands right now, ATI has the fastest, best performing, most efficient (power usage), most economical cards on the planet.........PERIOD.......END OF STORY. Hello? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

Now that may change w/ Fermi's release. But we'll just have to wait and see won't we.....

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Old 02-21-10, 11:27 PM   #92
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Default Re: Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

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I'll give you an "A" for trying, but what is it you think you're "winning"?

You or I aren't going to change each others opinions, and we won't change the opinons of people reading this, so is there a point to your speculation and FUD?

I'm not trying for anything,the facts speak for themselves,so they sure aren't speculation or FUD.


1:Fermi is late as hell.
2:God knows when mainstream and budget DX11 cards will be released from Nvidia,judging by what Nvidia's CEO said yesterday.
3:ATI released an entire lineup of DX11 cards and they kick ass.
4:Standards that work on all graphics cards always win in the end,and the same applies for GPU physics and 3D glasses and GP-GPU features.
5:Microsoft owns and controls the Direct X standard,and OpenGL is dead and buried as a gaming API,so special features in hardware can't be supported with OpenGL driver extensions anymore.


This has nothing to do with charlie or his articles and opinions,it's just plain common sense for anyone who's been using computers for gaming for the last few years,the usual marketing BS used to distinguish one card from another by implying it can do something that others can't simply doesn't fly anymore.


It's really that simple and obvious in the end,and i'm sure other users realise this as well,so what i'm saying isn't rocket science here,but it's in your right to refuse to accept that if you wish.
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Old 02-21-10, 11:35 PM   #93
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I like playing in 3d stereo on a LARGE monitor . . .what brand GPU allows me to do that TODAY?



I can live with 3 displays using a single card though and can use the DX11 features on a couple of games already(Dirt 2,aliens versus predator,battlefield bad company 2),and you need to use an SLI setup to pull that off with 3 displays btw


Each side has it's advantages basically.
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Old 02-21-10, 11:36 PM   #94
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Shadow you sure expend alot of energy in this thread. Me thinks you need to get laid. When is the last time you had some (|)?

Sorry if stating actual facts bothers you so much...
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Old 02-21-10, 11:45 PM   #95
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First of all, shadow001 I totally agree w/ you 100%. But you must remember you are posting on an NVidia site and these fanboys have really gotten thier little green egos hurt because ATI has been kicking thier ass the last 6 months w/ the 5000 series cards.

Secondly, Rollo bacause you are an Nvidia fanboy I understand and except your opinion here. After all, this IS an NVidia site.

I say let's just agree to disagree. HOWEVER, noone in there right mind can ignore the facts. As it stands right now, ATI has the fastest, best performing, most efficient (power usage), most economical cards on the planet.........PERIOD.......END OF STORY. Hello? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

Now that may change w/ Fermi's release. But we'll just have to wait and see won't we.....

Kapt
What guys like you and Shadow forget is that this is not a sporting event where we're cheering for teams.

Why would any sane persons ego be hurt? Why would any sane person think "ATi has been kicking their ass"?

Heh- if anything ATi is HELPING my ass. If NVIDIA didn't have any competition, I doubt they'd have bother with a focus group, and I wouldn't get the review samples to give my impression of. They'd just sell whatever they make, and we'd all have to buy it, because there would be nothing else.

Kaptkarl- do you feel bad when NVIDIA has the fastest card on the market? Have you ever given any thought to whether that is mature or "normal"? Seems to me you must think it's a normal state of affairs to have one's ego hurt by these events that are beyond your control and largely shouldn't matter to anyone but employees of either firm, if you're assuming we would react in this way.

Something to think about Kapt- and maybe speak to a psychiatrist about. Help is available.
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Old 02-21-10, 11:48 PM   #96
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lol -there are no facts yet to hang your hat on. the fact you are getting so worked up is a sign that you need some poontang bud. Unless you are a shareholder of AMD stock, who gives a rats arse? I am pretty involved with Nvidia and I am not all hot and bothered over the build up and launch like you are. well, it does mean more projects for me to do and that they will upgrade my hardware with the latest and best but it is not like a cure for cancer is being held back from being released or that a magic pill that increases breast size or penix is about to hit the market. we are talking videocards.

now if she were at your door then you would have a reason to get all worked up


True,it is video cards in the end,hence why i got my pair of monsters on the first day they became available in late november and never looked back,even more so after it became obvious that Nvidia was going to be very late with Fermi.


The only time it wouldn't matter if a card is late of not is if there was only one company to choose from,so they can release what they want,when they want it and charge whatever they want for it,much like what Intel does for their higher end CPU's since AMD can't touch them there and hasn't been able to for a long while now.
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