nVidia unveil at Pax East

Originally Posted by ViN86

Maybe I will see you there grey. The convention center is about a 15 minute walk away from my place

If I can talk my super into letting me split for the day...that would be very cool. I'm sure I'd have the chance to meet a couple of posters here at the event.

Pity this thread turned the way it did. I love the competition as it only benefits we consumers, and I love the discussions about the technical merits of each vendor's products - too bad it can't be left at that.

Meh....I'll not add any more fuel to the fire....

Peace all

[DiscipleDOC]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Tell that to Kyle at [H]. He hates me big time.

It's that mustache thing you got going. He's jealous of your mustache.

[ViN86]

bob wants a mustache ride.

[Noriega]

So I'm gonna do some OT discussion. What NV is going to show on Pax? Some other games than Rocket Sleed? Anyway it will be near end of NDA? So I won't bother about PAX. All I want to see are game benchmarks.

[Vardant]

DX11 version of Metro 2033 with PhysX and 3D Surround Vision, but the game will be out by then.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Rollo

The problem is you're not posting "difficult questions", you're just parroting "Butthurt Charlie's" FUD as if it were facts.

Whether Anand is angry or not isn't NVIDIA's primary reason for keeping all info NDA till the cards launch is my guess, as a corporation their only responsibility is to their shareholders.

If releasing information that could allow ATi to make production choices like "we know we have a 5% failure rate at core speed/core voltage X and a 10% failure rate at core speed/core voltage Y, but we estimate we'll have to produce Z performance based on the info NVIDIA was kind to give us" allows ATi to get some weeks/months jump on their refresh final spec, I can easily see why NVIDIA would hold their cards "close to the vest".

You need to look at things from a business perspective, not a "we want info and we're good guys" perspective. For all we know, you could work at ATi and be complaining about this in hopes of starting a grass roots "we want info!" movement, for the reasons I detailed above.

Really now?....The delays are accurate as charlie has been stating for months now,but hey it's Fud according to you.


Here's another good question,why show the cards at PAX,which is basically a glorified lan party basically,when CEBIT is in march 2nd to the 6th in hannover germany,and i think it's a lot more well known and gets way more media coverage than PAX ever will,and i quote

CeBIT has been called the world’s largest technology trade show,and gets 560 000 visitors on average.

http://www.cebit.de/homepage_e


And as for holding back clock speeds,i told you already,ATI itself alread went on the defensive and mentioned that Fermi might take the speed crown for a while,and ATI is a business in the end,so the refresh parts,whatever they are,are going to be clocked as high as they can,while still having good yeilds.


Trying to clock them as high as possible even after Fermi is released in some sort of dick mesuring contest,so that reviews show it winning,but when it comes to mass production,the yeilds are so bad that hardly any volume can be made,is no victory for ATI in money making terms,it's just a PR victory at most,and it's completely pointless.


Oh and here's what they're going with the 300 series designation,and this has got to be a new record in rebranding:

http://vr-zone.com/forums/564815/it-...more-gpus.html


If i were an Nvidia investor,would that make me happy when ATI has DX11 cards on the market and performing better than those already,for the same money....No i wouldn't.

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by Ninja Prime

No beavis, you're not. Take some advice rollo, beavis supports NV, does some of the same kind of things you do for them, but you know what? Hes respectable, and not an arrogant ass about it. +1 beavis.

NP:

If I were to tell you "Please stop posting negative to NVIDIA slanted comments because Darth Beavis doesn't post negative things about NVIDIA", would you do it?

If I were to ask you to change you posting style for any reason, would you do it?

So why do you expect me to?

I am not Darth Beavis, I am not ChrisRay. Hard as it may be for you to believe, I'm an individual with my own take on things. I'm not an employee of NVIDIA, there is no "company line" to follow. Note in my signature the verbage NVIDIA's legal team prepared for focus group member which states the opinions I express are strictly my own.

While I imagine ATi, and every ATi fan under the sun would prefer that I focused on modding cases like Darth Beavis, or running benchmarks and doing tech support like Chris used to, that's not how I choose to enjoy my hobbie.

I play video games with NVIDIA hardware, I post about the experience. When I see FUD or innacurate information posted about NVIDIA hardware I'm quick to point it out. I moderate on nZone, or don't, as time and mood allow. I post press releases for NVIDIA. I forward valid concerns about NVIDIA hardware to them. I give advice on purchasing, and if I know the answer to a question I post it.

The key is all of the above are things I enjoy doing and want to do, and that's what I plan to keep on doing.

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by shadow001

Really now?....The delays are accurate as charlie has been stating for months now,but hey it's Fud according to you.


Here's another good question,why show the cards at PAX,which is basically a glorified lan party basically,when CEBIT is in march 2nd to the 6th in hannover germany,and i think it's a lot more well known and gets way more media coverage than PAX ever will,and i quote



http://www.cebit.de/homepage_e


And as for holding back clock speeds,i told you already,ATI itself alread went on the defensive and mentioned that Fermi might take the speed crown for a while,and ATI is a business in the end,so the refresh parts,whatever they are,are going to be clocked as high as they can,while still having good yeilds.


Trying to clock them as high as possible even after Fermi is released in some sort of dick mesuring contest,so that reviews show it winning,but when it comes to mass production,the yeilds are so bad that hardly any volume can be made,is no victory for ATI in money making terms,it's just a PR victory at most,and it's completely pointless.


Oh and here's what they're going with the 300 series designation,and this has got to be a new record in rebranding:

http://vr-zone.com/forums/564815/it-...more-gpus.html


If i were an Nvidia investor,would that make me happy when ATI has DX11 cards on the market and performing better than those already,for the same money....No i wouldn't.

1. Why not show the cards at PAX? It's a week earlier? I'm sure NVIDIA will be at CeBit as well.

2. You apparently didn't understand me, and you apparently don't understand business. Are you an adult?
There are choices to be made when manufacturing these products. If NVIDIA released game benchmarks (or to a lesser extent clocks) 3 weeks before launch, ATi can make choices about their refresh parts.
A more expensive heatsink fan might be needed to run the cards at competitive (or better) levels, or a better PCB. I'm not an electrical engineer but better quality capacitors, etc might be required. Even if the board layout and HSF is "set in stone" a choice might be made to use more voltage to run at higher clocks, or not, and give OEMs the freedom to market OCd variants,or not. They might opt for higher speed and factor higher returns in exchange for a "halo" part, or not.

This is how business works. You don't tip you hand and give useful information to competitors because "some guys on the forum want it" or "the press wants it".

Likewise, withholding the information doesn't imply the parts are bad, or good. Much like the HD2900XT and HD4870, or the FX5800 and 8800GTX were surprises of the good and bad flavor, lack of information does not imply anything. (contrary to what chromosome deficient stillborns like Charlie Demerjian post as they soil their cheap boxers, or ATi fans post as they think "Ooh boy! I'm helping ATi now! Down with NVIDIA!")

Capiche?

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Rollo

1. Why not show the cards at PAX? It's a week earlier? I'm sure NVIDIA will be at CeBit as well.

Actually,Cebit is 3 weeks before Pax,and the main point is that it's a far larger technology show,having far more visitors and press coverage than PAX ever could....Nvidia would get more benefit from a Fermi presentation there than they ever could at PAX,period.

2. You apparently didn't understand me, and you apparently don't understand business. Are you an adult?
There are choices to be made when manufacturing these products. If NVIDIA released game benchmarks (or to a lesser extent clocks) 3 weeks before launch, ATi can make choices about their refresh parts.
A more expensive heatsink fan might be needed to run the cards at competitive (or better) levels, or a better PCB. I'm not an electrical engineer but better quality capacitors, etc might be required. Even if the board layout and HSF is "set in stone" a choice might be made to use more voltage to run at higher clocks, or not, and give OEMs the freedom to market OCd variants,or not. They might opt for higher speed and factor higher returns in exchange for a "halo" part, or not.

This is how business works. You don't tip you hand and give useful information to competitors because "some guys on the forum want it" or "the press wants it".

Likewise, withholding the information doesn't imply the parts are bad, or good. Much like the HD2900XT and HD4870, or the FX5800 and 8800GTX were surprises of the good and bad flavor, lack of information does not imply anything. (contrary to what chromosome deficient stillborns like Charlie Demerjian post as they soil their cheap boxers, or ATi fans post as they think "Ooh boy! I'm helping ATi now! Down with NVIDIA!")

Capiche?

You're not getting it,ATI already went on the safe side and said that Nvidia might hold on to the speed crown for a bit with fermi,so the surprise effect from with holding final clocks on fermi buys Nvidia a few weeks extra at most,hardly any advantage that matters in the longer term,as the major damage to fermi already happened with the delays it's suffered so far.


It's ancient history basically,as we all know that computer products in general,already have a short lifespan as it is as the best thing on the market,made a lot shorter when they're 6 months late....It blew it's window of oportunity as the fastest thing out there and hold on to that title at least for 6~7 months.


You mentioned the FX5800 and the HD2900XT right,what happened with both products after they were released?....They both were replaced very quickly with the FX5900,having a 256 bit memory bus rather than the 128 bit the FX5800 shipped with,and on ATI's side,they moved to 55nm pretty fast to make the original R600 GPU cheaper to make and use less power and be easier to cool,now relabled the RV670 chip.


In both failures,that happened within 2~3 months after the original release,which were both very late as well,just like Fermi is.....In short,there's very little reason to keep the clocks on this first generation Fermi a closely guarded secret anymore....If you miss your launch window by that much,you're screwed basically.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Nvidia wants to REELASE the card at a Geforce LAN. They already did the first public Fermi presentation at PDXLAN (see my videos). They clearly want to appeal to real-world users hence a LAN party event.

When was PDXLAN?.....I was under the impression that the first public presentation of working Fermi cards happened at CES(another large trade show btw) in early january?

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

I was not at CES (in person, I had builds there) to see if Nvidia actually ran the Fermi cards. PDXLAN was in January. It was the first LAN appearance and stated as the first GAMERS to see the Fermi.

KK,i'm going by the demo video's shown of working Fermi cards running that rocket sled graphics/physics demo during the CES show,as they were all over the major hardware sites...Even a triple water cooled SLI setup was shown if i'm not mistaken.

[Iruwen]

Originally Posted by shadow001

Actually,Cebit is 3 weeks before Pax,and the main point is that it's a far larger technology show,having far more visitors and press coverage than PAX ever could....Nvidia would get more benefit from a Fermi presentation there than they ever could at PAX,period.

CeBIT Home doesn't exist any more and the CeBIT is actually not meant to be a consumer tradeshow. Although there are always some multimedia shows and events for consumers, it is mainly focused on professionals and contractors. Some even say the expo is dead. Many big companies have not been there last year (the number of exhibitors decreased by more than 25%, four pavilions less were in use as compared to 2008), some are coming back this year (like AMD). I have been there last year and it would definitely not have been a great place for a Fermi (or any other highly anticipated) presentation.