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Old 02-28-10, 12:28 PM   #37
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Now after Fermis launch we'll surely be treated to "But ...but..they cost more to make! I want a chip that's efficient to manufacture!" or "But they cost too much! Radeons are a darn good deal".
Maybe it's also about energy consumption, though this doesn't seem to be an issue for many people:
http://www.retrevo.com/content/blog/...-green-gadgets
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Old 02-28-10, 12:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

The PhysX games I have are Cryostasis, Darkest of Days, Batman Arkham Asylum, Dark Void, Unreal Tournament 3, GRAW2, Warmonger,and Mirrors Edge.

Cryostasis is playable with PhysX on if you have a good system and a dedicated PhysX card.

That's eight games I own that are made a lot better by PhysX effects, not an insignificant number. And of course more are in development as we speak.

I don't know why anyone would lock themselves out of PhysX by purchasing an ATi card at this point. It's clear developers are using PhysX to take their games to the next level, why would anyone want to be stuck with the same ol' same ol'?

Just a few short weeks now until people really will only have price as a reason to buy ATi cards, because NVIDIA cards will be doing everything ATi cards do, and so much more. I'd be surprised if ATi sells a 58XX card in March, or many thereafter.
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Old 02-28-10, 12:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Maybe it's also about energy consumption, though this doesn't seem to be an issue for many people:
http://www.retrevo.com/content/blog/...-green-gadgets
Heh- I'd say if you're going to throw out energy conservation as a reason, you should turn off the gaming computer and play some checkers or cards. It's kind of weak to say "Brand X uses 50 less watts! I am saving the Earth!" When you're already totally wasting a a couple hundred watts to play a video game anyway.

That's like me saying "I drive a 5.3l Silverado, but I'm doin' my part for the environment and conserving fossil fuels by keeping my tires fully inflated and a clean air filter in it!".
I'm still getting 14mpg driving around town, so I'm not exactly Joe Ecology.
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Old 02-28-10, 01:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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ATi fans always want people to think ATi is a big player in the market, and that whenever ATi releases a new card "NVIDIA is doomed!"

And then when the dust settles after all this ATi p3wning, we see that ATi is just a bit player in the market (like their owner AMD):

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...market-share/1

So after 9 months of supposed ATi "triumph" due to GTX2XXs being "too hot, too expensive" and "WTF?! Rebrand!", NVIDIA cards were still outselling ATi cards over 2:1.

And then of course there was Q4 2009, where even though ATi had good supply of DX11 parts, 5770 and below, sporadic good supplies of 5850/5870s, and highly competive DX10.1 products, they lost discrete marketshare again.

http://www.techeye.net/chips/nvidia-...-without-fermi

So it looks like no matter WHAT ATi does, people don't seem to care.

My theory is this is why we see people like you on the forums working so long and hard to prop up ATi and post FUD about NVIDIA. It's all they can do. Now after Fermis launch we'll surely be treated to "But ...but..they cost more to make! I want a chip that's efficient to manufacture!" or "But they cost too much! Radeons are a darn good deal".

While this lament goes on, NVIDIA will dominate the market as usual.

I'll keep this short and to the point:


1:ATI sells 35 million GPU's a year on average.
2:ATI has been in business for over 25 years now,even well before Nvidia actually existed as a company,or released their first GPU,the NV1,which supported quadratic patches,while other companies supported polygon based rendering,and making that choice to go to quadratic patches btw,nearly bankrupted them.


The only other companies that old,that are still in business are matrox and S3 basically...Something to keep in mind.
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Old 02-28-10, 01:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
The PhysX games I have are Cryostasis, Darkest of Days, Batman Arkham Asylum, Dark Void, Unreal Tournament 3, GRAW2, Warmonger,and Mirrors Edge.

Cryostasis is playable with PhysX on if you have a good system and a dedicated PhysX card.

That's eight games I own that are made a lot better by PhysX effects, not an insignificant number. And of course more are in development as we speak.

I don't know why anyone would lock themselves out of PhysX by purchasing an ATi card at this point. It's clear developers are using PhysX to take their games to the next level, why would anyone want to be stuck with the same ol' same ol'?

Just a few short weeks now until people really will only have price as a reason to buy ATi cards, because NVIDIA cards will be doing everything ATi cards do, and so much more. I'd be surprised if ATi sells a 58XX card in March, or many thereafter.
Oh hey, PhysX, what a wonderful topic

Good thing Nvidia crapped all over it's own customer's who purchased Nvidia cards and were planning to use a secondary card as their PhysX card, only to find out that they HAVE to now use Nvidia primary cards only



And once again, I miss ChrisRay's comments on this and other boards At least with him you knew he wasn't a shill and actually cared about the community.

RIP
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Old 02-28-10, 01:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

You've said it yourself Rollo.
Physx takes a HUGE hit on your frames and you have you own a very strong rig to full enjoy the not so impressive effects.Physx is mainly for enthusiasts so it probably wont become popular.And mind you this is coming from someone who is using a Physx card and has played Batman and Cryostasis.

I'd personally prefer the huge performance hit taken with Physx be tranfered to making a game with better shader and texture effects.
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Old 02-28-10, 01:39 PM   #43
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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You've said it yourself Rollo.
Physx takes a HUGE hit on your frames and you have you own a very strong rig to full enjoy the not so impressive effects.Physx is mainly for enthusiasts so it probably wont become popular.And mind you this is coming from someone who is using a Physx card and has played Batman and Cryostasis.

I'd personally prefer the huge performance hit taken with Physx be tranfered to making a game with better shader and texture effects.

He just doesn't get that unified standards always win out to make software using a particular feature a lot more popular,and was bragging that he's got 8 games using that feature so far,while GPU accelerated physics has been supported by Nvidia for about 2 years now,as ageia was bought out by Nvidia in february of 2008,and PhysX is based on the Novodex Physics API anyhow....


Then Add that the driver support for the original Ageia physics processor is no longer available,and it was a better physics processor than using Nvidia GPU's,or that Nvidia also doesn't allow the use of an ATI graphics card with an Nvidia GPU backing that up for physics either.


And in the end,it's not about using physics in games anymore,it's about using physics in games while being forced to use Nvidia hardware for no good reason,trying to make it special,like it has some sort of super secret technology that other graphics cards don't have,and it is backfiring since i don't consider 8 games with GPU accelerated physics a huge success in a 2 year period,and all the major releases that hit or are about to hit retail,haven't bothered with it at all,such as modern warfare 2 or the upcoming batlefield bad company 2 or bioshock 2 or mass effect 2,assassins creed 2,or left for dead series either.
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Old 02-28-10, 01:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
He just doesn't get that unified standards always win out to make software using a particular feature a lot more popular,and was bragging that he's got 8 games using that feature so far,while GPU accelerated physics has been supported by Nvidia for about 2 years now,as ageia was bought out by Nvidia in february of 2008,and PhysX is based on the Novodex Physics API anyhow....


Then Add that the driver support for the original Ageia physics processor is no longer available,and it was a better physics processor than using Nvidia GPU's,or that Nvidia also doesn't allow the use of an ATI graphics card with an Nvidia GPU backing that up for physics either.


And in the end,it's not about using physics in games anymore,it's about using physics in games while being forced to use Nvidia hardware for no good reason,trying to make it special,like it has some sort of super secret technology that other graphics cards don't have,and it is backfiring since i don't consider 8 games with GPU accelerated physics a huge success in a 2 year period,and all the major releases that hit or are about to hit retail,haven't bothered with it at all,such as modern warfare 2 or the upcoming batlefield bad company 2 or bioshock 2 or mass effect 2,assassins creed 2,or left for dead series either.
Ageia better than a 9600GT, I dont think so. Hell it isn't even better than the GT240. And go a head with your upcoming "physics" games. Its all prerendered, preprogrammed crap. No matter what you do to something or how you do it, the physics is exactly the same each and every ****ing time. Atleast with PhysX supporting titles where the GPU is used, the PhysX has a more real feal to it as it IS reactionary based on what and how you interact with the item.
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Old 02-28-10, 01:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Ageia better than a 9600GT, I dont think so. Hell it isn't even better than the GT240. And go a head with your upcoming "physics" games. Its all prerendered, preprogrammed crap. No matter what you do to something or how you do it, the physics is exactly the same each and every ****ing time. Atleast with PhysX supporting titles where the GPU is used, the PhysX has a more real feal to it as it IS reactionary based on what and how you interact with the item.


Funny,and here i though that when i played the beta of battlefield bad company 2 for instance,and can pretty much knock down anything from fences to,cement walls and trees or even bring an entire house down,and do it in any order i wish,with whatever weapon i want,that it's pretty good physics calculations going on.


And it doesn't require a GPU for physics either,it's all done with the CPU...


So your argument for GPU accelerated physics was?
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Old 02-28-10, 02:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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I'll keep this short and to the point:


1:ATI sells 35 million GPU's a year on average.
2:ATI has been in business for over 25 years now,even well before Nvidia actually existed as a company,or released their first GPU,the NV1,which supported quadratic patches,while other companies supported polygon based rendering,and making that choice to go to quadratic patches btw,nearly bankrupted them.


The only other companies that old,that are still in business are matrox and S3 basically...Something to keep in mind.
When I read this post, it says "ATi staffer" to me. All pretense of being an enthusiast cast aside, time to get down to business.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but:

1. ATi does indeed sell GPUs every year, but that wasn't my point. My point is that since the 8800 series launched, ATi parts were inferior until the 4800 series launched. Since that day, I have read 8,023,562 posts about why NVDIA is doomed from people like you. You parrot Charlie's FUD, you make up your own, and in general post anything you can to try and damage NVIDIA's business. And like I said and illustrated with actual links to report of ATi's actual position in the market, all this marketing noise doesn't really reflect what is happening in the market.

2. ATi can't really count itself in the company of Matrox and NVIDIA, although they could be lumped in with S3. ATi sold controlling interest in their company long ago, because they couldn't cut it. Try typing "www.ati.com" into your browser's address line these days and see where it takes you. If you are an ATi staffer, I hope you guys have more to hang your hat on than NV1 days. Truth be told, if ATi wouldn't have bought ArtX's tech and got the R300 in the bargain, they probably would have joined 3DFX, S3, and Rendition long ago.
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Old 02-28-10, 02:43 PM   #47
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

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Funny,and here i though that when i played the beta of battlefield bad company 2 for instance,and can pretty much knock down anything from fences to,cement walls and trees or even bring an entire house down,and do it in any order i wish,with whatever weapon i want,that it's pretty good physics calculations going on.


And it doesn't require a GPU for physics either,it's all done with the CPU...


So your argument for GPU accelerated physics was?
Better than your argument against it.

What you ATi guys have never got about the "open standards" line of reasoning is that it doesn't matter if open standard someday replace the proprietary standards.

The guys with the proprietary standards features still have them, and the open standards. So they're covered, while ATi buyers have to watch that Terminator Salvation video and think "Crap. When that game launches I'm going to have to play it with far less visual effects, because I bought this ATi card."

Or in a few weeks when I'm posting about 3D Surround and what it does for games, again they'll have to think "Crap. I can't do that because ATi can't figure it out."

NVIDIA owners aren't excluded from anything. (or at least they won't be when Fermi launches in 26 days) ATi owners have to mumble, "Well those effects aren't good anyway" or "Who needs AA? Someday ATi will patch it!" or "That 3d stuff is a fad, who cares what CES was all about this year?!" or "It's no problem switching the discrete graphics off and on by hand in my notebook, why would I want that to be automatic?" or "Who needs those CUDA apps, someday someone will write something for ATi!" or "Why would I need access to my multi GPU profiles, and why don't games launch with a profile".....

The list just goes on and on and on and on.

The reason ATi never gains any market share is they have no money to offer the public the features the public wants. They just cough up the same stuff year after year, but faster, and think people don't notice what modern, full featured video cards can do.

Probably the best thing that could happen to gamers would be if the Middle East finished buying AMD and actually pumped some money into R&D.
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Old 02-28-10, 03:40 PM   #48
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Default Re: I know nobody really knows but is a GTX480 going to be faster then a HD5970

Bwhahaha. Rollo, the church called, they want their preacher back. You're so full of **** it is both sad and hilarious. I bet you would be willing to claim the FX5800 was actually a better card than the Radeon 9800XT hahaha. Seriously man, don't you get terribly bored of yourself? NVIDIA focus group member... I think the PR department would love to have someone like you. Ever considered applying for a job there?
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