A little disappointed in Nvidia

[howard stern]

Well I have been waiting for about 6 months to see what Nvidia was going to put out against ATI's 5800 cards and I am a little disappointed I was hoping to switch back to the green team but I think I am going to just wait for the refresh from both sides and see what happens. What do you guys think.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by Siskods9

I too was a little underwhelmed by FERMI, though depending on your existing card FERMI might be a fantastic upgrade for a lot of people.

I think FERMI is too hot, too expensive and offers only marginal gains over a 5870.

As always spend as much as you can and get the best value for your money and live with your purchase for as long as you can until the upgrade fever starts again...

I'm just curious, so don't take it wrong...

If somebody posted Benchmarks, comparing an HD5870 with its original drivers versus a GTX480, the gains would not be marginal. Let alone, if the GTX480 had its best drivers, from say several weeks from now, and the HD5870 had it's original drivers, the gains would definitely not be marginal.

The numbers would be the proof.

So far I have bookmarked 13, GTX480 Benchmarks/Reviews. This week I'm going to try and bookmark some original HD5870 benchmarks with its original drivers, and compare them with the GTX480.

The reason I'm so curious is, that asking if a GTX480 is worth an extra $75 after seeing the numbers comparing the two of them with the drivers I've suggested, should be asked. Just like it has been asked up until now. And isn't that fare? Or is it only fare to ask before you reverse the time-line? (That would be illogical, right?)

[Toss3]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

I'm just curious, so don't take it wrong...

If somebody posted Benchmarks, comparing an HD5870 with its original drivers versus a GTX480, the gains would not be marginal. Let alone, if the GTX480 had its best drivers, from say several weeks from now, and the HD5870 had it's original drivers, the gains would definitely not be marginal.

The numbers would be the proof.

So far I have bookmarked 13, GTX480 Benchmarks/Reviews. This week I'm going to try and bookmark some original HD5870 benchmarks with its original drivers, and compare them with the GTX480.

The reason I'm so curious is, that asking if a GTX480 is worth an extra $75 after seeing the numbers comparing the two of them with the drivers I've suggested, should be asked. Just like it has been asked up until now. And isn't that fare? Or is it only fare to ask before you reverse the time-line? (That would be illogical, right?)

An extra 75$? How about an extra 200$. Also you cannot know if the GTX 480 is going to receive drivers that are going to perform better so comparing a 5870 with older drivers to a GTX 480 isn't fair. Nvidia has always had pretty good drivers at launch and no card of theirs has received 30% gains. You also need to keep in mind that it could take up to half a year for the perfect drivers to come out and by that time ATI is bound to have something better on the market.

The GTX 480 performs very good right now, but imho it should have outperformed two 5850s in order to be considered a good deal. No amount of updated drivers is going to bring its performance to that level.

[snowmanwithahat]

Here's the thing... Nvidia's design is going after a whole different area than the 5870's

ATI
Fast in traditional games
low power consumption
low heat output

nvidia
Great dx11 and tesselation performance (heaven benchmark shows this)
Great double precision floating point performance (doesn't mean much for gamers...)
Far greater raw computational power compared to ATI's offering... I can guarantee if you used Folding @ Home a gtx 480 would by far beat a 5870

You need to step back and look at things in the way the companys are looking at them. Nvidia is focusing on absolute power, which has yet to be completely realized in games. ATI on the otherhand is going right to the consumer with a product that games well.... but there's a reason stream performance has been so bad compared to CUDA. When things start getting implemented with OpenCL we'll see the true power of ati and nvidia cards.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by Toss3

An extra 75$? How about an extra 200$. Also you cannot know if the GTX 480 is going to receive drivers that are going to perform better so comparing a 5870 with older drivers to a GTX 480 isn't fair. Nvidia has always had pretty good drivers at launch and no card of theirs has received 30% gains. You also need to keep in mind that it could take up to half a year for the perfect drivers to come out and by that time ATI is bound to have something better on the market.

The GTX 480 performs very good right now, but imho it should have outperformed two 5850s in order to be considered a good deal. No amount of updated drivers is going to bring its performance to that level.

You sound upset Toss3. Are you? I apologize if I upset you. And I'm not being sarcastic.

The simplest questions (things that involve just three or more factors) are extremely complicated as far as possibilities. And therefore they require organization and logic in order to ascertain an answer.

And if I failed at asking a simple question correctly, and caused you to think I was asking something that I was not asking, then I apologize Toss3. It was not my intention to do so.

I was not suggesting anything about the HD5850. If you wish to argue something about the HD5850, then I'm more than willing to listen.

Originally Posted by howard stern

Well I have been waiting for about 6 months to see what Nvidia was going to put out against ATI's 5800 cards and I am a little disappointed I was hoping to switch back to the green team but I think I am going to just wait for the refresh from both sides and see what happens. What do you guys think.

Just my humble $0.2 so don't anyone flame me

If, like me, you are looking for quiet computing, and only need performance for games, keep yourself to a strict budget - ATI is the hands down winner here.

If you need the new Cuda architecture, are not constrained by budget and don't mind water cooling, Fermi may be for you.

Yes it has excellent performance in games, but the cost, heat output and noise leave me no option other than ATI today. Like I said before though, give it some months and us air cooled budget gamers may see drastic refinements we can live with.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by snowmanwithahat

Here's the thing... Nvidia's design is going after a whole different area than the 5870's

ATI
Fast in traditional games
low power consumption
low heat output

nvidia
Great dx11 and tesselation performance (heaven benchmark shows this)
Great double precision floating point performance (doesn't mean much for gamers...)
Far greater raw computational power compared to ATI's offering... I can guarantee if you used Folding @ Home a gtx 480 would by far beat a 5870

You need to step back and look at things in the way the companys are looking at them. Nvidia is focusing on absolute power, which has yet to be completely realized in games. ATI on the otherhand is going right to the consumer with a product that games well.... but there's a reason stream performance has been so bad compared to CUDA. When things start getting implemented with OpenCL we'll see the true power of ati and nvidia cards.

I totally agree. Thanks.

I understand that getting water from a rock or playing Video Games on an nViDIA Quadro are kind of part of the understanding of what is going on with the GTX480/Fermi. (I'm sort of being silly for a reason; which is, to save words.)

But you've brought up another recent curiosity of mine, snowmanwithahat!

The Untapped Power of the GTX480?

Any previous series of nVIDIA cards I wouldn't have contemplated it.

But with the architecture of the Fermi series, maybe there is something Untapped, that could boost gaming performance. Is nVIDIA hiding something? (Maybe the production shortage or slowdown problems could have been used as incentive to scale back the GTX480 performance initially via their drivers only to be unveiled later on for the commercial sales promotion as a result of how the News of the Untapping via drivers would bring when production was increased? Yes, I'm being silly but! The questions still come up just the same.)

[SirPauly]

Originally Posted by Toss3

The GTX 480 performs very good right now, but imho it should have outperformed two 5850s in order to be considered a good deal. No amount of updated drivers is going to bring its performance to that level.

Computerbase.de offers a nice over-all gauge:

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...formancerating

5970 is 11 percent faster over-all in DirectX 11 than the GTX-480 at 1900 x 1200; 3 percent faster at 2560 x 1600.

5970 is 18 percent faster over-all than the GTX-480 at 1900 x 1200 with x4aa; 22 percent faster with x8 AA

5970 is 22 percent faster over-all than the GTX-480 at 2560 x 1600 with x8aa; 13 percent faster with x8 AA

I can see updated drivers closing this gap.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

3d gaming. that is where it is at. I am demoing it to thousands of people across the country and have yet to find someone who does not think it is the bees knees. If you want to do 3d gaming on anything other than a small screen, ATI will not work. you can only do 3d with ATI on an IZ3d monitor. With Nvidia you can game on any of the new 3d TVs coming out (current one I am working with is the 50" Panasonic plasma). With Nvidia, you can have better than Eyefinity . . .3d Surround owns it. period

Excellent point DarthBeavis!

I've left out that element as so not to crowed my minuscule brain capacity. And or for, the purpose of focusing on several perimeters that preclude 3D Gaming.

But yes, the 3D gaming the GTX480 can do now is on my list of pros. I just have to hold off on it.

The one curiosity that 3D gaming initiates involves the 120Hz Monitors. Much of the time I enjoy gaming with VS enabled. And 60Hz really stinks. A couple years ago I'd hoped that a revolutionary Triple Buffering solution might come along. But it won't ever transpire. So I want a 120Hz monitor as soon as possible. In fact I want one more than anything!!!! And I might as well enjoy 3D Gaming on one too!

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by SirPauly

Computerbase.de offers a nice over-all gauge:

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...formancerating

5970 is 11 percent faster over-all in DirectX 11 than the GTX-480 at 1900 x 1200; 3 percent faster at 2560 x 1600.

5970 is 18 percent faster over-all than the GTX-480 at 1900 x 1200 with x4aa; 22 percent faster with x8 AA

5970 is 22 percent faster over-all than the GTX-480 at 2560 x 1600 with x8aa; 13 percent faster with x8 AA

I can see updated drivers closing this gap.

Nice. Any translation URLs?

ty

[Yaboze]

I'm more disappointed in the price per performance and heat ratio.

You can't deny the performance on this card this early in the game is GOOD, at least on the 480. I have a 285 and I don't think it's worth it to go with a 470, at least a single one. I may either go with another 285, a single 5870 or dual 5850's. Not sure yet.

Nvidia cards are a little harder to find these days due to what seems to be a cut in production. I think the price has recently gone up on the 260-286-295's. If I can find a 285 cheap, I may roll with it. The problem is I won't have DX11 with 285 SLI and a single 5870 will use less power than 285 SLI and it will have DX11.

What will probably happen for me is I'll wait for the 480 refresh that will be cooler, use less power and be cheaper, but that's a ways off.

[K007]

Originally Posted by snowmanwithahat

Here's the thing... Nvidia's design is going after a whole different area than the 5870's

ATI
Fast in traditional games
low power consumption
low heat output

nvidia
Great dx11 and tesselation performance (heaven benchmark shows this)
Great double precision floating point performance (doesn't mean much for gamers...)
Far greater raw computational power compared to ATI's offering... I can guarantee if you used Folding @ Home a gtx 480 would by far beat a 5870

You need to step back and look at things in the way the companys are looking at them. Nvidia is focusing on absolute power, which has yet to be completely realized in games. ATI on the otherhand is going right to the consumer with a product that games well.... but there's a reason stream performance has been so bad compared to CUDA. When things start getting implemented with OpenCL we'll see the true power of ati and nvidia cards.

doesn't nvidia own heaven?