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Old 04-02-10, 08:51 AM   #13
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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I'm more disappointed in the price per performance and heat ratio.

You can't deny the performance on this card this early in the game is GOOD, at least on the 480. I have a 285 and I don't think it's worth it to go with a 470, at least a single one. I may either go with another 285, a single 5870 or dual 5850's. Not sure yet.

Nvidia cards are a little harder to find these days due to what seems to be a cut in production. I think the price has recently gone up on the 260-286-295's. If I can find a 285 cheap, I may roll with it. The problem is I won't have DX11 with 285 SLI and a single 5870 will use less power than 285 SLI and it will have DX11.

What will probably happen for me is I'll wait for the 480 refresh that will be cooler, use less power and be cheaper, but that's a ways off.
Yes, you absolutely right Yaboze.

At first I forgot about the GTX285 being DX10. SLIed, and they would stand up to a GTX480 if compared DX10 only.

But no DX11!?

Well, you should take advantage of the lack of interest in the GTX480 and get one. Because you will see 50%-60% improvement in Games and that is a clear YES! YES! YES! in the, when to upgrade formula.

Imagine doubling the FPS in all your games. And your GTX285 will not go to waste. It will be the ultimate backup/Testing card.

Or, like I said, take advantage of the lack of interest in the GTX480, again, by selling your GTX285! Now! Now! Now! While you can still get a good price for it. I bet you get good money for it. And just set a good minimum price and you can't go wrong.

GL. u should sell it, and that dramatically reduces the cost of upgrading. i think ur lucky. its my GTX295 that is a much bigger question.
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Old 04-02-10, 08:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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The Untapped Power of the GTX480?
It kind of depends on how you view untapped. I think there is certainly unrealized potential, but to imply that nvidia is somehow artificially holding back their card is a stretch of the word.

I think once we see games with heavy use of tesselation you will see the GTX 480 way in the lead. ATI's cards put on a nice show but when it really really comes down to it and all you have is raw computational power



EDIT: I don't want to be that douche-bag fanboy.... so I did some research and I'm sad to report that I was sorely mistaken about ATI's performance. With Stream2.0 and the newest ATI cards there's a huge performance increase. With my system for example I'm running around 22,000 PMK/sec with my GTX 285 and 9,800 at the same time (14,000 and 6,000) respectively, with the rest being from my cpu. Here's the graph I found for this very very specific case of Pyrit which uses stream and cuda for computing PMKs (Pairwise Master Keys) for wpa passwords. Have a look at the graph.... they have yet to add data about the GTX 480 series.



Number crunching like this is a much better way to get a feel for the performance of the card. It stresses it in ways games can't and certainly puts more workload on it than games.... My 285 peaks at 95 C when running this program, but only 88 C or so in games.

Also if someone doubts the legitimacy of the graph, it was created by the developers of pyrit who were originally developing it exclusively for CUDA. It's a pretty unbiased comparison
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Old 04-02-10, 08:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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doesn't nvidia own heaven?
If they do, I'm going there when I die!

yuk yuk yuk....
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Old 04-02-10, 09:00 AM   #16
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....

EDIT: I don't want to be that douche-bag fanboy.... so I did some research and I'm sad to report that I was sorely mistaken about ATI's performance. With Stream2.0 and the newest ATI cards there's a huge performance increase. With my system for example I'm running around 22,000 PMK/sec with my GTX 285 and 9,800 at the same time (14,000 and 6,000) respectively, with the rest being from my cpu. Here's the graph I found for this very very specific case of Pyrit which uses stream and cuda for computing PMKs (Pairwise Master Keys) for wpa passwords. Have a look at the graph.... they have yet to add data about the GTX 480 series.

....
Should I use profanity to describe my poor GTX295's sexual organ as a result of the chart in you just posted, snowmanwithahat? (Don't get me wrong, I'm just fine. But my poor GTX295 isn't... due to it seeing the chart....)
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Old 04-02-10, 09:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

I have a another rig to stick the 285 in, so I'm not worried about dumping it for a loss right now. The biggest question is "What to get?". I'm leaning towards a 5870. My friend has a 5970 and it's a MONSTER.
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Old 04-02-10, 09:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

lol @ the graph I posted.... apparently dual card configurations don't work with ATI right now and Pyrit.... something about bad drivers and linux

Even though nvidia's performance is slightly behind, I'm not going to be jumping off this ship anytime soon.... if they did get drivers working right though for ATI a tri-fire 5870 setup would be simply amazing for wpa cracking
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Old 04-02-10, 09:21 AM   #19
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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I have a another rig to stick the 285 in, so I'm not worried about dumping it for a loss right now. The biggest question is "What to get?". I'm leaning towards a 5870. My friend has a 5970 and it's a MONSTER.
For the money?

Unless you have the cash or are building a brand new system from scratch, there's no need to get one just yet.

Your best off waiting for the dye shrink and the price war. And, getting it within the Trade-Up period with BFG or EVGA. I did it with a GTX285 Febuary '09, and I Traded-Up for a GTX295. I came withing a few hours of BFG's 110 day Trade-Up program. Was I ever happy!?

And don't forget, especially because you have a GTX285 and can apreciate a single GPU, that dual GPU Video Cards are just that. (Two slower GPUs sandwiched together or placed on a PCB.) And even though my GTX295 has performed beyond the call of duty, if, its' same computing power, could have been packet into a single GPU, there would have been no hesitation to get it, instead.

(Consider the Pros and cons of a Cooler Master HAF-932. They are worth it. Everybody has copied the concept but the original is the best in this case. CRAP!!! I hate that pun. I'm going to throw-up.)

GL
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Old 04-02-10, 09:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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lol @ the graph I posted.... apparently dual card configurations don't work with ATI right now and Pyrit.... something about bad drivers and linux

Even though nvidia's performance is slightly behind, I'm not going to be jumping off this ship anytime soon.... if they did get drivers working right though for ATI a tri-fire 5870 setup would be simply amazing for wpa cracking
ok. you do that. i haven't googled "wpa" but you do that.(jk)

("wpa" isn't a joke about that part of my GTX295 i referenced, is it!? That would be too funny.)
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Old 04-02-10, 09:57 AM   #21
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No lol. WPA and WPA2 is currently the most 'secure' encryption for wireless home networks. It replaced WEP a while back and although it doesn't have huge flaws like WEP, its still possible to capture packets, and then crack the password through the use of a wordlist.

It was viewed as being unhackable because of the time it takes to compute a PMK (Pairwise Master Key), which is illustrated in that table.... even an i7 is horribly slow compared to the power of a 3 year old gpu. Video cards are extremely good at doing this and that's where alot of my CUDA time is spent.... sadly, like I said, ATI is actually doing alot better here.

What I find interesting is that its through the use of OpenCL that they got a huge improvement, not with Stream.... that chart I posted has a 4850 using Stream and OpenCL and you can see the numbers are alot different. ~2x better with OpenCL
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Old 04-02-10, 10:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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You sound upset Toss3. Are you? I apologize if I upset you. And I'm not being sarcastic.

The simplest questions (things that involve just three or more factors) are extremely complicated as far as possibilities. And therefore they require organization and logic in order to ascertain an answer.

And if I failed at asking a simple question correctly, and caused you to think I was asking something that I was not asking, then I apologize Toss3. It was not my intention to do so.

I was not suggesting anything about the HD5850. If you wish to argue something about the HD5850, then I'm more than willing to listen.

I'm not upset at all. I'm just saying that the GTX 480 isn't the best bang for the buck that's all. You get better performance with two 5850 in CF and lower power consumption.
I also wouldn't base my decision on computerbase's benchmarks as they used a lot of different drivers for their tests and there's no way of knowing if they used a proper Dirt 2 benchmark that doesn't utilize DX9 on the GTX480.

120Hz 3D gaming is also supported on ATi with the latest drivers from iz3d. Still in BETA though.
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Old 04-02-10, 10:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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Originally Posted by snowmanwithahat View Post
No lol. WPA and WPA2 is currently the most 'secure' encryption for wireless home networks. It replaced WEP a while back and although it doesn't have huge flaws like WEP, its still possible to capture packets, and then crack the password through the use of a wordlist.

It was viewed as being unhackable because of the time it takes to compute a PMK (Pairwise Master Key), which is illustrated in that table.... even an i7 is horribly slow compared to the power of a 3 year old gpu. Video cards are extremely good at doing this and that's where alot of my CUDA time is spent.... sadly, like I said, ATI is actually doing alot better here.

What I find interesting is that its through the use of OpenCL that they got a huge improvement, not with Stream.... that chart I posted has a 4850 using Stream and OpenCL and you can see the numbers are alot different. ~2x better with OpenCL
Thanks for the graph.. it is better to compare GPUs that way than using folding@home. Folding@home nvidia client is excellent and use CUDA very efficiently. However, the ATI client which uses stream i presume is slow when compared to nvidia. my 8800GTX beats a HD5870 easily in F@H!
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Old 04-02-10, 10:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: A little disappointed in Nvidia

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Thanks for the graph.. it is better to compare GPUs that way than using folding@home. Folding@home nvidia client is excellent and use CUDA very efficiently. However, the ATI client which uses stream i presume is slow when compared to nvidia. my 8800GTX beats a HD5870 easily in F@H!
If you fold nvidia is definitely the way to go.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/education/...e=samechandate
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